EHCP support thread no. 4

@Macramepotholder @BrightYellowTrain Sorry! I thought moving from ks3 to ks4 and starting GCSEs was considered a phase transfer. (I didn't go through the British school system myself, so still learning!)

@Macramepotholder unless it is a cut and dried case, it is riskier to have a content appeal heard on the papers.

Oh thanks, I'll give that a go. I said I was happy for it to be heard on the papers (in the grand scheme of things this probably ranks as a very minor appeal and could be done on the papers really easily), so that might speed it up a little more.

@SpaceInvader321 refusal to assess appeals are different. They are heard on the papers (unless there is a significant compelling reason for them not be) so are heard markedly quicker whatever the age of the child or young person. Y9 to Y10 is not a phase transfer.

@Macramepotholder I didn’t realise you were in a phase transfer year. It is worth asking for an earlier hearing, although it isn’t always agreed for phase transfer appeals that don’t include section I. Expedited phase transfer appeals are usually held in the summer term or early in the autumn term (there is not enough capacity to hear all before the start of term).

@Macramepotholder Regarding phase transfers, I helped a friend file their refusal to assess appeal a few weeks ago for a child going into y10 in September. SENDIST registered the appeal within a week and my friend was given a September 2025 hearing date.

Ooof that's a looooong time.

For non-prioritised/expedited hearings, you are looking at over a year, I’m afraid.

Hi all, hope everyone is doing ok.

I've just put in our section B/F appeal. Does anyone know what the rough timelines are at the moment?

I'm assuming at least until well into the autumn term.

School have still done zero to implement the plan although I did raise it with the head last week and had an apology from the SENCO. Because DD has no behavioural challenges there's never any sense of urgency.

@Cinnamoncupcake send it to the caseworker and the Director of Children’s Services. It is more common for LAs to ignore the fact they have breached the timescales than it is for them to refuse just because they are in breach - not least because delaying delays your right of appeal too.

@Icantpeopleanymore if the LA formally refused to assess and then conceded, the 10/14 weeks would be from when they conceded. If the original refusal wasn’t formal, the 20 weeks are from the date of the EHCNA request. You would be amazed at what good professionals are able to glean even if the child struggles to engage.

@handmademitlove ignore the LA. Even if the provision was already in place, it would still need to be in the EHCP. They are trying to pass the buck back to health when the provision is special educational provision. All about money and ease of enforcement. The EP should be covering everything within their remit.

@BananaPie if complaining to the school and speaking to the LA doesn’t work, you could also complain to the ICO. However, don’t rely on that way to get the information because it isn’t quick.

@BrightYellowTrain thanks, that’s really helpful

Meeting with case worker went okay - they agreed to wait for the EP response to my request for amendments and suggested I also email SALT with all my queries. I noted that due to the ongoing argument around OT, I would most likely need to appeal anyway so they are going to finalise as soon as they have comments back from SALT and EP, and response from school to agree they can meet need. The case worker brought her boss along - not sure if that is because she thinks I am difficult or because she knows she can't make any decisions! There were a lot of questions from the boss about why various things weren't already in place eg nhs provision and I had to point out that any such provision is either non-existent in our area or there is such a level of gatekeeping that access is not possible if your child is seemingly well-adjusted (read not suicidal, school refusing, expelled or hospitalised......)

Comments back from EP today - basically saying they don't think it is appropriate or even possible to be specific / detailed about the vague provision I flagged 🙄and that there is an assumption that provision is led by teacher / TA so doesn't need to be written in the report. I told them it all needs to be explicitly added as otherwise it will not be possible to enforce provision if needed...
the EP also said lack of detail in some provision is because the SALT / OT advice should cover it - except it doesn't.

Every interaction is a frustration that they do their utmost to avoid following the code of practice....

I am very lucky that school understand the core needs and will get on with it anyway, but I am very aware that it only takes a change of a staff member for all that to disappear without it being specifically listed in the EHCP.

@BrightYellowTrain oh I will be checking definitely, I have the date as end of march but she said April. However it's been confusing as they redid the panel meeting for decision to assess due to the school not submitting evidence. I'm sticking to my date when I submitted as the start though.
I know I'll struggle but it's worth a try...I can use it later if I do get one, however DD probably won't talk to them or even attend an appointment so I'm not sure how much use it'll be if I do find one.

I've spent an hour or two this evening going through the ed psychologist report and highlighted everywhere there is vague language and made notes on anything I think she's missed, asked for provision for a few needs mentioned but without provision. Hopefully I got everything. Also contacted a local organisation for advice and to see how much draft checking would be.

No I haven’t would I need to send this type of letter to the Sen officer? Even if I get a draft come Monday they still wouldn’t meet the deadline. Do you think some LA refuse to issue if they know they can’t get it done in time? In a way of covering there arse?

Fortunately DS loves school and attends FT. At the moment he is in Reception and the demands will only increase in Y1. Ironically, the pre-school applied for an EHCNA at the start of his pre-school year as recommended by the Early Years Consultant from the LA!

@BananaPie don’t worry about the final evidence deadline, you can request late evidence is admitted.

Yes, complain to the school. Also contact the LA. If that doesn’t work, you could complain again and remind them if they fail to disclose the information you will be forced to ask SENDIST to order the release of information/direct the school to respond.

Follow up all verbal conversations with emails. Push the SENCO to put more in writing.

Does the ‘decent set of reports’ include independent reports? If not, you might want to consider those. Is the ‘list of interventions’ detailed, specified and quantified?

Hello, can I jump on to ask for some advice? I am currently appealing refusal to issue. The school submitted the original EHCP request, I appealed refusal to assess and now have a decent set of reports with a list of interventions required.

The LA have refused to issue saying that the school can meet need from ordinarily available resources.

The school can’t, and my appeal is on this basis. I sent the school the IPSEA model letter in October asking for details of the individual provision map for my child, along with details of the SEN budget, number of children with EHCPs, number on SEN register. I have now made a FOI request for the SEN budget details (not for the provision map).

The final evidence deadline is in a couple of weeks and despite having repeatedly asked the school for the information, I still haven’t received the details required. The FOI request was supposed to be answered within 20 school days. It is now 5 working days late. Although the SENCO has had a couple of helpful chats with me and provided the LA with a very brief statement saying that they can’t meet the OT or SALT programmes in the recommendations, she has not provided a clear list of what my child is currently getting in terms of SEN provision. I think this is because she hasn’t actually got a written down provision map. The SEN dept seems overwhelmed.

Where do I go from here? Should I complain to the school? I don’t want to undermine my relationship with the senco, but at the same time I don’t think the appeal will have much chance of success without the evidence. The hearing is about 9 months away. So although I’ll miss the final evidence deadline there is I guess still a bit of flexibility.

Thanks

@Icantpeopleanymore unless you are very lucky in catching someone with a cancellation, you won’t get a good independent SALT with SENDIST experience in time for the draft. Don’t rely on the LA the telling you the deadlines. Check them yourself.

@ThatsGoingToHurt if it is relevant, e.g. DC isn’t in full-time school, have you requested an expedited hearing?

Currently on week 71 of trying to get an EHCP. Tribunal not until July!

@BrightYellowTrain thank you. I've spoken to the caseworker who seems to think the 20 weeks is up in April, so I've asked her to clarify the exact date. She also said the ed psych should know better that the report can be amended as she said she needs it to be more clear too. So hopefully once she's contacted the ed psych I'll be able to get her to amend.
I'll look into SALT, I think I'd have to do it independently now to be in time for the draft.

@Icantpeopleanymore an EP report won’t cover SALT needs and provision like a good SALT report would. You can try requesting the LA seeks advice and information from a SALT but, at this stage, if you think you will have to appeal, you might want to just seek an independent assessment for appeal.

Things like rest breaks and a small… environment etc. aren’t needs. They are provision. The quotes are also quite vague - e.g. “access to” again needs to go, “regular” needs clarifying. If DD needs interest led provision “try to” and “where possible” need removing.

@Cinnamoncupcake given the state of many drafts, a draft could be written in a few hours. Have you made it clear to the LA if (when!) they fail to finalise on time, you will be forced to pursue legal action because they are frustrating your right of appeal?

There is no way they would meet the 20 weeks now, even through it’s going to panel through another Sen officer this week, it will still go back to my original sen officer on Monday to tell me the decision and to draft a ehcp. She simply has far to many needs to start school in September without one, it’s all such a worry isn’t it! In my daughters case they’ve had all the reports for 3 weeks ( educational psychologist report was delayed ) so they should have been able to keep to timeline

@Cinnamoncupcake I had a caseworker who was MIA and the new one took it to panel yesterday, they've agreed to issue, I'll be phoning her in a moment to find out more but I would think ours should be in the next couple of weeks, we are on week 15 now, delayed because of the previous caseworker and school not sending evidence within the first 6 weeks.

I know it has to be done in 20 weeks but they just ignore that usually!

So I have had a response, they are getting another EHC needs assessor to do my daughters post assessment summary and submitting it to panel as a urgent case, but this means I still won’t know the decision until Monday at the earliest when her sen officer is back from annual leave and then he will have to do a draft ehcp if accepted. How long do they usually take to do a draft ehcp if accepted? We will be at week 17 this Saturday.