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Original poster

To give up on my son's school?

134 replies

jaffacakesaremyfave · 04/07/2017 13:51

My 8 year old DS has severe behavioural problems at school. In the past 2 years he has been excluded more times than I can count, been put on a reduced timetable once for 3 months and recently again for an indefinite period (so he's currently excluded every Friday)

His reception year at school was fine but when he moved into year 1, the problems started. We relocated due to my work and he moved school when he was at the end of year 1 and things really began to deteriorate.

He had a bad start due to racial bullying which I don't feel the school took seriously and as his behaviour became worse, they resorted to locking him in a small room until he calmed down but would often leave him there until I came to collect him even when he had calmed down.

I fought to get him into a better school which was run by the same head teacher where his older brother attends and for the first term his behaviour improved dramatically. However, over the last year we seem to be back to where we started.

The most recent incident was yesterday where he left school premises (he's never done this before) and the school rang the police. They only called me after he had gone back into school and said they called the police as they are unable to follow him when he leaves school grounds. The police never came so basically if he does this again they will leave my 8 year old son to wander around a busy main road until the police arrive.

I feel at my wits end and I don't know how things can move forward. I have had so many meetings with the school to try and manage his behaviour. He has a teaching assistant and he is extremely fond of his current class teacher but his behaviour deteriorates if neither of them are in school (like yesterday when both were at sports day all day). Next year will be horrendous as he already doesn't like his new teacher for year 4.

I've tried to get him referred to CAHMS several times through both the school and GP but these have led nowhere. His main problems seems to be about becoming frustrated if he can't do his work or if he is told off for something that he feels is unjust (like being told off for talking in class when it wasn't him talking) This leads to him either completely shutting down and becoming mute for hours on end or become destructive and swearing at teachers.

At home he is generally well behaved but we have a very close relationship and I have learned how to ask him to do things in a way that avoids conflict and if things escalate then I know how to calm him down and he always accepts his punishments (e.g losing his electrics, pocket money, can't go to football etc)

I recently had a meeting with someone from parent partnership who attended a meeting with the head and she agreed that some of the things the school were doing were not helpful (e.g if my son walked off they would tell him he's going to a PRU or back to the previous school for which they also run).

He has witnessed DV when he was very young from his father (who is now in prison and he no longer sees) and i found out last year that their father was emotionally abusing him and his brothers (which never made it to trial).

I have asked for counselling but nowhere can provide it for free so my only option is private which I can't afford. The school made a referral to a charity for young carers (after me pushing for a year to try and find an organisation that can help him) but they only offer an outing after school every fortnight and it really isn't set up for children like my son who have behavioural issues.

I've been to CAHMS in the past and done the 6 week parenting course but like I say, his behaviour at home isn't the issue and CAHMS won't deal with behavioural problems.

I feel like the school has given up on him and labelled our family as 'one of those families'. They are extremely patronising to me (comments such as 'well you do so well getting them to school looking clean' etc.)

Not that it should make a difference to how we are judged but although I am a single parent, I have always worked, have a high level of education and am in a professional career but they still seem to treat me like I'm some silly single mother who has messed up her child and assume I'm at home on benefits.

Sorry for the long post but I really do not know where to go from here. Should I move his school for a third time to one not affiliated with this one or leave my son in a school not able to manage his behaviour and potentially letting him leave the premises and not be followed.

Where do I stand legally with their position on this? Surely they have a duty of care to ensure he is safe during school hours and if they cannot manage that then they should call me immediately so I can intervene.

I am so exhausted and upset by this situation

OP posts:
Original poster
jaffacakesaremyfave · 10/07/2017 16:05

So today was an absolute disaster. His behaviour at the new school was worse than ever. They don't want him back there.

I really don't know what to do or where to turn. I'm so ashamed that he can behave like this. The new head asked me to sit down when I collected him to talk through what he had done that day. He stormed out of the room and I tried to catch him before he ran off and he was kicking me and swearing. I've never seen him behave like that before.

I'm just devastated and at my wits end.

OP posts:
Lowdoorinthewal1 · 07/07/2017 22:24

Well, I think they should stop doing it, however that is achieved. They need to go into the room with him if he needs to be removed from the classroom because he is a danger to other pupils. When he is calm enough to be safely left for some cool down time they can- but with the door open and an adult close by.

TBH though, I just think your son needs better help. He needs to be somewhere that can meet his needs properly.

Original poster
jaffacakesaremyfave · 07/07/2017 21:30

Low, I can answer yes to all the following from the article you linked

•	Do support staff or teachers or others take the child to the room or space?
•	Is the child left in the room or space alone?
•	Is the child is unable to leave the room independently or not understand how to leave the room when they choose to?
•	Do people watch/monitor the child  from outside the room without entering the room?
•	Is the practice dependent on a room or space which is available at the place the child  is being educated or cared for?

I already alerted safeguarding, they had no findings however it was informal rather than formal written complaint. Do you think I should formally complain?

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Lowdoorinthewal1 · 07/07/2017 21:03

That's nonsense Kariana.

A child absconding without the school realising, maybe, but not just for a child managing to get out. What do you think mainstream schools are, high grade prisons??

Kariana · 07/07/2017 21:01

I'm shocked that there doesn't seem to be much mention on the thread of how your son escaped from school. If ofsted found out a child had managed to leave the school premises alone they would be straight in doing an inspection. Part of safeguarding is ensuring the children can't get out. Frankly I'm shocked and worried by this more than anything else and if I were you I'd be putting in a formal complaint about the fact that it happened!

Lowdoorinthewal1 · 07/07/2017 20:42

Some basic info

Lowdoorinthewal1 · 07/07/2017 20:27

Smile I think you misunderstood me, I didn't mean a school had been shut down for using illegal exclusions, I meant illegal seclusion which is where you keep somebody in a space, on their own, against their will and prevent them from leaving.

It was a specialist autism school in the NW that made the news, but I don't know if I'll be able to find a link now.

Original poster
jaffacakesaremyfave · 07/07/2017 16:35

Oh and I've not spoken to school nurse but used to work with our local school nursing team and they don't deal with things like this. It's more about vaccination, weight, bed wetting etc not behavioural/emotional things.

I've no idea why he isn't on SEN or why I'm having to push so hard for any help. I've always just been told he doesn't have SEN. I asked for an EP referral many times over the years and they constantly said they don't have any in our LA but the head from new school said all local schools put money in a pot for EP and get allocated time (enough for 2 children per school). I didn't even know about this until today. He doesn't have a behavioural management plan, there's nothing for him to aim for and no reward when he behaves.

A lot of my anger is that I feel I've been so misinformed about what's available, what's legal, what's really going on with resources.

OP posts:
Original poster
jaffacakesaremyfave · 07/07/2017 16:28

Thanks Winky,

I'm definitely going to look into an EHCP application myself.

An update of today. I went to look around another school and told the new head everything. She appeared to be understanding and said he could start there on Monday for a managed move.

The head of current school then emailed asking to cancel meeting on Monday and basically good luck and bye. The problem is that the managed moves is temporary and at the discretion on new head (so basically she can send him back to old school if she feels it's not working) Also to get him in permanently then I need to apply through LA admissions which may not be successful so he may end up staying at old school.

Should I still ask the head to meet on Monday?

I was annoyed today because I emailed the head asking if he can go in for transition day (DS wanted to be at school). Head replied that's fine but then I got a phone call from a TA at 10am saying head had asked her to call as transition is only half a day and can I collect him at 12 even though his behaviour had been fine when she called. When I challenged her and said why can't we just see how he goes for the rest of the day and I will collect him if needs be, she said no, he's not supposed to be in Fridays!!

I am worried about the new school as head said it was an academically low achieving class (and had been since yr 1) and that they have spent their allocated budget for EP's but that the yr 3 class teacher is their SEN. I said as long as I feel something is being done, even if it doesn't work it will enable things to be escalated higher rather than just leaving me and my DS in limbo.

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WinkyisbackontheButterBeer · 07/07/2017 09:55

Meant to say also. I can't understand why he isn't already on the schools SEN register. He would certainly be on mine.

Could school mean that the EP is only used where there is an EHCP application in process, rather than where they are being assessed for the register?
I would definitely be applying for an ehcp myself in your situation.

Have a look at the senco section of your LAs website and see what paperwork they have to fill in for application and assessment.
Ours uses a system of "range descriptions" which we highlight to describe need and consider provision. Something like this might be useful as evidence of his level of need and appropriate provision at your meeting.

WinkyisbackontheButterBeer · 07/07/2017 09:49

Have you had any school nurse input? Sounds silly but they are often the gatekeeper to services such as camhs and paediatrician.
Even when parents contact their gps they are often advised to ask school for a school nurse referral.
It may be different in different LAs though.

Original poster
jaffacakesaremyfave · 07/07/2017 08:35

Thanks for the links Smile. I will look into it today. The head has agreed to let him go today as long as I'm around to pick him up if things deteriorate.
*
Hi,* the problem with the PRU is that a) there is a long waiting list to get him in, b) the school have been using it as a threat when he misbehaves so he sees it as a punishment rather than therapeutic, c) it's a temporary measure and there're still needs to be things at place in school when he goes back.

I don't molly coddle him at home. There are times I lose my temper with him and ask him to do things straight like get his shoes on, go to bed etc. The difference is that if he is close to melt down I know when to stop pushing him or I give him affection. His anger comes from pain and feeling got at. I'm not going to go into the specifics of what his dad did to him but it makes sense as his dad was basically a tyrant and shouting and demands make him shut down which is when he goes mute.

I understand he needs to learn how to handle being asked to do things by school but at the moment there is nothing in place to help him develop the skills to cope with that which is what I'm pushing for

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HiJenny35 · 07/07/2017 08:23

You've said that you don't have this sort of behaviour at home because you have learnt how to speak to him and calm him down and ask him in ways that you know won't make him angry, that's great as you have sorted him at home but that isn't life, he has to develop the understanding that people will ask him things in different ways and he cannot react with abuse and violence towards objects that must be very scary to all around. That's where a pru can often work. I work in a sen school and we often use them, small group focused work around emotions and how to behave in different situations and coping strategies all designed to get the child emotionally ready to integrate to school. It's a very good and effective method which many people react badly to because they assume it's just a place for naughty kids. I'm sure there's a few rubbish pru's around (like schools) however most are really effective.

SmileEachDay · 07/07/2017 08:02

It's a shame that you had an incompetent family intervention worker - it doesn't necessarily mean that they are the wrong service. An external service to school being involved can be extremely helpful. It ensures someone is looking at the whole picture.

[[http://www.frg.org.uk/what-is-an-unofficial-exclusion ]]

[[http://www.ipsea.org.uk/what-you-need-to-know/exclusion-from-school ]]

Those links explain how illegal it is. That's better evidence than schools being "shut down" - which wouldn't happen for that in a clear cause and effect way.

Original poster
jaffacakesaremyfave · 07/07/2017 07:40

I'm going to add EHCP to the agenda on Monday.

So far I've got

  1. Can DS be put on the SEN register for social, emotional or mental issues
  1. Can DS have an EYCP assessment
  1. What is the action plan to safeguard DS if he absconds from school again? e.g full time 1:1 TA
  1. When is the exclusion on Fridays going to be reviewed. School have duty to provide full time education. What provision can they put in place to continue his education full time e.g tutor etc.

If school cannot do this they need to identify somewhere he can go.

  1. School have already identified DS may struggle with his new class teacher next year. What can they put in place for transition.
  1. He needs assessment from educational psychologist/psychiatrist however one at spire healthcare I contacted needs referral from school. I'm willing to pay, can they make referral to chosen one?
  1. EHCP referral.

Can you send me the links to schools being closed down for this? I want to bring hard evidence on Monday as I've been reassured so many times that what they are doing is legal

OP posts:
Original poster
jaffacakesaremyfave · 07/07/2017 07:23

Oh and because the family support worker couldn't find a time to visit around my full time working hours they said I 'wasn't engaging' which is often thrown in my face by the head whenever she feels I'm getting too pushy.

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Original poster
jaffacakesaremyfave · 07/07/2017 07:21

Smile, yes I got your PM and thought I'd replied.

Thank you for the info. I'm reluctant to contact family intervention as in his last school they called a meeting around the child (at my request which I'm assuming is same organisation) and they referred to a useless family support worker to come to my home. The issues are at school not at home and she just wanted to do parenting classes (which I've already done through CAHMS in London).

I'm taking him to the GP today to push for psychiatrist or psychologist referral.

I'd love to move but my eldest DC is settled at high school and middle DS about to start there so having transitions.

Because my son is excluded today, he's missing his transition day with his new class teacher so it's just going to exacerbate things next year. He actually wants to go to school today

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Lowdoorinthewal1 · 07/07/2017 07:18

There are four area of SEN:

cognition and learning
communication and interaction
social emotional and mental health
sensory, physical and medical

Your DS sounds like he has needs in both C&I and SEMH. You are being fed utter BS if they are telling you it has to be C&L to 'count'.

You can (and I also think should) apply for an EHCP yourself, but you need to get really knowledgeable first so you make a good application. Read the SEN Code of Practice for starters, ask on SN boards here and explore the advice from services such as IPSEA.

Realistically you will be rejected because the school have not properly exhausted their graduated response (no EP, SaLT CAMHS referral, no 1:1 support put in, no outreach advice called in etc), but you can appeal. Having the process in action might focus their minds a bit.

I would see if you can visit any alternative provision available (AP settings, SEMH schools etc). They may be in the nearest city but if you managed to get a place there would be transport.

Your school sound either clueless, skint or at the mercy of an LA that has been stripped out. It is probably all three. Putting him on his own in a room on his own and preventing him from leaving is illegal seclusion BTW. Schools have been closed down for doing this.

SmileEachDay · 07/07/2017 07:06

Jaffa did you get the info I sent?

ASauvingnonADay · 07/07/2017 06:45

I know it's a bit extreme, but is moving an option? I cannot imagine a child with that level of need in our LA not being catered for!

CauliflowerSqueeze · 06/07/2017 23:44

I really think an EP will be pointless. You're not looking for guidance on how to help his learning.

Ceto · 06/07/2017 22:05

Unofficial exclusions are of course totally unlawful. Make it clear that you won't accept them any longer, nor will you accept reduced timetables. If they need extra support to keep him in school, they should support you in applying immediately for an EHCP.

Original poster
jaffacakesaremyfave · 06/07/2017 21:13

I've emailed the parent partnership person the agenda but I'll forward it to the head today. I asked if she would be willing to make a referral to a private EP and she said that they have employed someone and may be able to refer without me paying. No idea why school waited till now to tell me as they know this is something he's needed for years!!

He was on a 'reduced' time table for 3 months but I reckon if I add it up he's missed over two months from school in total from official and unofficial exclusions. Last week he was excluded from Friday to Thursday and not allowed in the following Friday (so was at school 1 day in total i.e. The Thursday)

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CauliflowerSqueeze · 06/07/2017 20:17

Honestly, forget the Ed Psych and any talk of PSPs. You need a clinical psychologist to assess. Yes it's expensive but this level of behaviour is just untenable for anyone.

When you said he was excluded for 3 months, do you mean he was not allowed in school for 12 full weeks? Or are you saying he was on a reduced TT during that time?

Cantchooseaname · 06/07/2017 19:01

Sounds like you were asking the right questions.
Can you email the questions you want answered to those attending there meeting, as a suggested agenda? Maybe also include an item where they can raise their concerns/ table what support they want from you?