At wit's end with DD's behaviour and poor school performance

To be honest, most uniform rules are simply idiotic, and if you are subject to someone trying to enforce idiotic rules, you start to lose respect for them and all their rules. It's fairly natural. (Just imagine someone trying to monitor the color of your socks in the workplace. What would you think of that person?) If the school wants to fight this battle, they can, but I wouldn't get involved with that at all. The other things you can try to discuss with her. Personally, I would let her drop the martial art if she can keep fit in other ways.

@moppingtheboard My dc went to a fairly swish girls boarding school. They knew girls! No stupid ties. Blazers - girls decided if they needed to wear it! Short skirts - of course! Yes, the odd telling off but certainly not detention. This school is controlling over stupid things. My old school didn’t care much either - and that was a grammar. We had to wear uniform on leaving the school but it was fairly relaxed on the inside.

This dd is fairly normal. She’s bored. The lessons are almost certainly not fast paced enough. Nothing to do with Sen, it’s a teaching issue. Such a shame there’s no grammar.

I think you are putting too much emphasis on the intelligence thing. She won't be the only clever child in school and bright children actually tend to be more engaged in school than the weaker ones. Bear in mind, most of the teachers will teach their subject to A level and will be more than capable of stretching someone in year 8. I would be wary of using that narrative with her because it puts pressure on children. Some avoid putting effort in so that they can blame any lower marks on lack of effort rather than risk losing their reputation for being clever. It could even be that she is resentful towards school and teachers because she hasn't done so well in some subjects or hasn't been put in the higher set for something.

However, it is probably just hormones. It is very common for teenagers to change interests, develop a bit of an attitude and become more interested in their social life. Her behaviour sounds pretty normal. Most teenage girls grow out of it by Yr10.

How long are you going to insist on the extra curriculars? When she is 16, 17, 18, are you still going to make her carry on with things she no longer wants to do? If she's telling you loud and clear she wants to drop something then I think you need to listen - she needs to feel that she has agency over her free time.

Otherwise I think a lot of her behaviour sounds normal for Year 8 - it's a bit of a dead year in the sense that everyone has found their feet after Y7, but the more serious stuff (GCSE options etc) is still quite a long way away. Keep imposing boundaries and consequences for disrespectful behaviour, but you have to chalk some of this up to her age.

she's had at least one detention per week since she started because of uniform violations - tie is too short, skirt is too short, not wearing blazer, etc. Basic, stupid stuff that is so easy for her to remedy but she persists on pushing the boundaries
Is the uniform issue because she’s generally messy and disorganised, or is she doing it to provoke? Maybe she doesn’t want to be seen as a geek and is acting up a bit to seem badass and be more popular.

They’re all different at that age, but detention is socially embarrassing at my DC’s school, so there’s a peer pressure to be cool while still doing well.
I honestly can’t see anything wrong with your DD. She doesn’t vape, drink or have underage sex, she has friends, and she’s bright and creative. What really is the problem?

You have described my daughter exactly - very bright at primary would do pretty amazing things and was an excellent sportsperson as part of a competitive club. Secondary school and everything went downhill. Gave up all clubs, behaviour nosedived, ended up in detentions every week and obsessed with hair, makeup, uniform and breaking school rules.
For her it’s quite complex, she is diagnosed adhd so is very impulsive which make her argue with teachers and do silly things in class, especially if she thinks others will find it funny. She also struggles to focus and concentrate, would walk out of class and goes to the toilet a million times a day to get out of sitting in class. I think boredom is part of it too, but not that the work isn’t challenging just that she’s not interested in a lot of it. And like another PP said, I think she’s having to work harder to keep up, whereas she sailed through primary not really having to work very hard.
We’ve tried every sanction, consequence, nothing has really helped. She just has no respect for rules or boundaries at school or at home. We’ve talked to her at length about how this will affect her future and how she’s wasting her talents but nothing seems to go in.
One thing I will say is that things are slightly better now she’s in year 10. I don’t know if anything we have done/said has started to sink in or whether she’s just grown up a bit but her attitude has changed a bit and she’s also on meds for her adhd which helps a lot too. Also she’s not being forced to sit in classes doing subjects that she didn’t want to do (boring!) now she has made her gcse choices and I think this has helped a lot.
Hang in there, I know it’s easy to say and it’s so stressful. The only advice I have is to keep talking to the school, you’ll probably find they don’t think of her how you think they do (she always has great comments at parents evenings).

@IAmAllOutOfIdeas Most kids rebel at home. It seems like your dd can't. You force her to do sports she doesn't want to do! She's building up anger and resentment and school is her safe place where it gets out.

You got your priorities twisted. You can tell her that you expect from her to be polite and work in school and do her homework. As how she spends her PERSONAL FREE time just butt out! She sounds like a creative smart girl who learns languages and is artistic on her free time- let her do just that! You're killing her spirit- she needs to feel that she has some freedom of choice in her life or she will refuse to do something- and that something is being a good student which She's capable of- because she doesn't dare go against your draconian extra curricular expectations. Just stop.

Also with kindness, you and possibly DH need to reflect on why you're at your wits end with this perfectly normal, albeit irritating, tween/teen behaviour. Her school performance is hers, not yours, and it,'s what she's doing now. It isn't a predictor of her future.

She sounds just like me! I pretty much stopped playing piano (I was very good), didn’t work hard at all. Also did quite a bit of bunking off school. Because I was bright, I still did pretty well in my GCSEs, but nowhere near as good as I could have. Dropped out of sixth form after the first year to start working. I have a career that I love, so have landed on my feet - I grew up a lot in my late teens and worked hard.

My parents were loving and kind, but very hands off with education - they felt it was up to me if I wanted to waste my time at school. It may have been different if I had been pushed more / they had been stricter, but I’m very happy with where I’ve ended up.

With kindness, all the details about how bright your DD is, that the school's sixth form is outstanding, that she beats her opponents at martial arts are just noise really.

She's on the cusp of being a teenager, has more freedom than she had at primary school and working out who she is and how the world works.

From what you'd said:
She attends school, is very sociable and gets maybe a weekly detention for skirt length.

Her behaviour at school contributes to the low level disruption in the classroom, which is frustrating for her teachers who will nevertheless have seen it all before and know that it's a developmental phase

She's academically able, loves drawing, takes part in activities and exercise out of school.

She does homework (albeit the bare minimum)

She likes going to Costa and Superdrug with her friends.

That all sounds very, very normal for Y8 and Y9 tbh. Frustrating for you and her dad, who want to see her make the most of her potential and fly academically. That's what you want. It doesn't sound like she wants that (at the moment). That does not mean that she will not decide at a later date that that is what she wants and get her head down.

I would step back. She's already receiving sanctions in school for breaking rules. You don't need to punish her twice by stopping her meeting her friends at Costa.

Trying to impose your views and values on her at this age is more likely to have the opposite effect that you want. I would recommend a lighter approach. Rather than long conversations about how not to break the school rules, just 'Another detention? Oh, well.'. Rather than 'You got X in your Y6 tests, you should/could be getting Y now' just 'Well, I can imagine that you'll work a bit harder than that when GCSEs come around, but that's not for a few years'.

Give her some space to think things through for herself, rather than giving her a stance to argue against.

Shes rebelling.
Its a fsct a private school is no better than a state..only for you to resent any more 'trouble'.
Taking her phone and limiting apps is in my mind a very controlling tatic..as well as being involved in clubs or sports she wabts to drop.
She is finding her own self.
Nothing like a rebel when you are trying to be up with the jones in your affluent area.

If she’s really academically bright and good at her sport have you investigated the local private schools with a scholarship and bursary?

She is likely to have to up her game behaviour wise before they accept her but it’s worth talking to her about whether she’d want that option if feasible.

Oh and she is unhappy. That’s why she doesn’t care about the consequences etc. she feels like everyone hates her (she’s not emotionally mature enough yet to equate it’s linked to her behaviour) and she’s chatty to anyone and social because she is in a place where she’s longing to be liked. The fact that incurs consequences is irrelevant to her because she needs that feeling to counteract how she feels about her teachers opinion of her.

Id arrange a meeting with school, understand their position but ask for a workable plan to support DD to change her thinking around this. It’ll start with with small praise for anything she does that’s alongside the rules - even if it’s expected she needs to feel noticed for it.

@IAmAllOutOfIdeas Is puberty a factor? Hormones can create havoc. Another vote for letting her drop some of the extra curricular stuff. I think she either sounds bored or has found things easy so far and hasn't learned to learn stuff she doesn't want to or is not interested in.

Also shes unlikely to be the highest achiever at secondary, loads more kids, top sets still but pushed off top spot potentially . If she only values top results, she may stop trying. The gobbiness could be a cover.

Can you get her a school counseling and if not private counseling. Enable her to unpick whats going on and help her find her own solutions.

Is she the child most likely to high achieve in your house ( if she were to play ball )?maybe she is kicking back against expectations , feeling the pressure you say she is excellent at martial arts maybe that's more pressure to succeed and never fail . Could the pressure of expectation be making her deliberately fail to remove some pressure to keep her end up at all times . I was that child in the 1970 s. I came out of it after a couple of years of happily failing I woke up and realised I was only hurting myself

Oh hello girls in year 8 🫠🫠🫠 we had this last year, very similar indeed!

However, we seem to have got a lot of it over with and Year 9 is plainer sailing already, the ‘disruptive behaviour’ and ‘poor effort’ points have massively reduced (all for talking and generally having a jolly old time) It seems for us to have been reasonably short and sharp and is now mostly out of her system.

Stay calm, stay firm, stay consistent, this too shall pass.

“She's bored out of her mind there”

Sadly, I can understand this all too well - while teachers are supposed to stretch the brightest while not leaving the weaker members of the class behind, what actually happens is that they teach to the middle, so I can understand your DD’s boredom. The trouble is that if she becomes disaffected, she’ll struggle to catch up later - there’s nothing more dispiriting for a teacher than a bright DC who fails to reach their potential because of behaviour or attitude. So what to do about it? There must be something that your DD wants, even if it’s just to go out with her mates and buy make-up, so make that dependent on good grades. If she enjoys learning languages, encourage her with the language she is learning at school - lessons may be tedious, but it doesn’t stop her from learning extra vocabulary or going the extra mile on her own. If you can run to it, offer a weekend away in the appropriate country if she puts in the effort. If the “cool” girls roll up their skirts, then so will she - not a lot to be done about it, although if the school uniform allows trousers, consider making her wear them. Once she gets to year 10 when they’re starting their GCSE courses, things tend to improve.

Shes basically chatty, bright, social, questioning and disinterested in consequences. Long term I'm sure she will go far, school is only fleeting. There is certainly something going on for her to react, may just be teenage hormones, a gobby friendship group, school teething issues. She sounds quite impulsive however which makes me wonder about ADHD or ADD.

Also why is she doing three sports or your choice and not three clubs of her choice? Surely she should be doing something which brings her joy and makes her feel fulfilled? It sounds like you’re controlling rather than supportive, you're not allowing growing agency. Helping her reflect and weigh up pros and cons and make decisions is a step towards adulthood.

Most importantly, doing these activities is good for her physical health and if she didn't do them, frankly, she would rot in her room and do naff all else.

I think you are from a much more affluent background than us but three sporting activities per week is actually a lot. And I thought she taught herself a non-Latin alphabet language when left to her own devices, so where's the evidence that she'd rot in her room?

You sound quite controlling with quite a narrow view of what teenagerdom 'should' look like. You say she's not unhappy, so why is she deliberately sabotaging things for herself? Get curious.

Lots of secondaries don’t stream children any more. Maybe there isn’t the challenge in her lessons that she needs if the teacher is focussed on the ones that need additional support.

I was very similar at school - top of the class in primary, bored, irritating and boy crazy by y8. Try and have a proper conversation with her teachers/HOY- is she genuinely bored or (like I was) starting to find I wasn't the brightest anymore so styling it out as I didn't want my star to slip?
Let her stop the martial art - I did MA as a young teen because my dad insisted. Hated it. And when I got attacked a few years later, I didn't think to use martial arts, I just hit the fucker.

This is her lesson to learn, OP. Let her get herself into some trouble and back up the school when she does. At the moment, she believes she's bright and doesn’t need to work hard - arrogance of youth all over!

I'd speak to her form tutor/head of year about it. Chances are, when's there's something real at stake, she'll buckle down because she won't want to fail.

I remember year 7 and year 8 to be really boring, nothingy years TBH. I didn't really enjoy school until we were streamed in yr 9 and subjects got more complex and interesting.

If she really thinks the material is too easy, ask if she would be willing to do a harder version of the homework that she's currently being assigned.

To me it sounds like she needs to be given more responsibility - ideally for something meaningful. I'll be honest: I can't think of anything, but I do think responsibility makes young people grow up at this stage. PP mentioned work experience or volunteering (especially regularly), that would be a good idea, if you can find anywhere that will take someone her age.

Year 8 and year 9 are often the really tricky years at secondary, most teachers hate year 9 because they’re old enough to have settled in the school and teenage enough to only care about socialising and clothes and (sometimes) sports but not yet in the exam years where most of them buckle down and do some work.

teenagers gonna teenage whether they have phones or not.

suggestions:
sit with her and do homework with her or make her do it. Then reward for doing it.
sanctions rarely work on teens. Many teens just respond with anger and aggression (as she is doing at school).
focus on the key subjects - maths and English. Does she have anything she wants to study/a career as an adult? If so starting on work experience can be good (eg stables if work with animals, St John cadets if anything medical etc).
start talking about choices for what she wants to study.