QEB v Wilson's - which is the leading/best school

I should clarify that this is at Wilson's. I've heard very differently re QE (as others have alluded to)

You might find this thread interesting, particularly the OP's first response (fifth post overall). Re: QE's criteria... to decide whether a student can continue into the sixth form?

in years 10 and 11, we had our usual tests for all GCSE subjects (based on the GCSE curriculum) that determined our sets. In addition we had “essential skills” tests which were partly based on GCSE curriculum as well as some A level type questions (but no new content). In order to get an “offer to study” one had to reach the pass threshold - the requirements differ by subject and are made very clear in year 9. E.g. to be able to do maths A level, one needs an average of 80% or above in the first 9 essential skills maths tests and 75% or above in each of the final 3 tests. You can only take an A level if you get the offer to study. Many people leave because they didn’t get an offer to study a subject they wanted to.

to give you a sense of what this looks like, I’d estimate about a third of my year group left for sixth form. I got offers to study for all of my subjects, I’d estimate there were about 20 of us.

All schools with a sixth form will have minimum requirements for studying A levels, both overall and for specific A level subjects. There is both a perfectly reasonable aspect to this, as @terrifiednewbie has - you really aren't going to be able to access A level content, if your natural level at GCSE was a grade 2 or 3, and a 'preserving our reputation' side - with a 4 or 5 at GCSE, you may well be able to make something of the A level curriculum, but come out with Ds / Es. Yes, they are still A levels, but how willing a school is to have them on its record will vary somewhat from school to school (to put it politely).

The issue with the way that QE selects / selected for sixth form (no personal experience of the school, just going from historic threads on another forum), seems to have been that whereas everywhere else bases its selection on achievement in national exams, at QE, you could be predicted an A* / 9, but still told that you couldn't take that subject, based on internal assessments (said by one poster to be 'harder than GCSE'). This was also a (?the) rational behind not allowing 'outsiders' to join at year 12, because they couldn't possibly have gone through the school's special selection process.

NB any 'culling' after years 12 on grounds of academic results constitutes unlawful exclusion (see St Olaves, London Borough of Bromley, 2017).

We haven't heard of any 'culling'. But there is a minimum GCSE grade requirement to study certain A levels, which, frankly, is the norm in many secondaries (selective and non selective) to ensure the student can keep up. There is a significant step up from GCSE to A level.

We live fairly centrally and almost equidistant from the two. I am happy to discuss our thoughts about the two schools and why we chose the school that we did (a few people have DM'd already)

This article appears to be well over 30 years old….! Am not sure how helpful it is to be citing it.

(I questioned the date of 1992 as that’s well before the internet as we know it, but they must have put archived articles online as the head they refer to left in 1999).

@StrugglingPa Do you know if there's any "culling" for A Levels at Wilson's?
I found the head's talk really inspiring in the open day, but there's also negative reviews alleging "toxic masculinity" here https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/secondary/5019377-wallington-county-grammar-school?reply=133509514&utm_campaign=thread&utm_medium=share

I read about A level cull at QEB here
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/optout-school-getting-rid-of-troublesome-boys-1535587.html but is there a cull as well in Wilson's (or other Sutton grammars) ?

Computer science is not necessary at A-Level & as a subject is really just applied Mathematics, Further Mathematics as a course could be just as good as Comp Sci for A-Level for anyone hoping to do STEM degree.

@StrugglingPa Just checking which option you chose and how is it going?

We were in the exact same position as you (knew we had scored highly enough for QE and had hoped we had for stage 2 for Wilson's). Interestingly, we had the complete opposite reaction to the QE expansion plan to yours- we felt that it would distract the SLT (even if the process is being outsourced, the senior leadership team would inevitably have to have some level of involvement, which would detract from time focussed on the school). We felt it would be akin to the teething problems some schools have when joining a MAT and a head steps up to be exec head; it may work longer term but may cause turmoil in the early years. We were also concerned that they would run into problems with this plan as St Olave's did. It will be interesting to see what happens longer term, but didn't feel we wanted our child to be part of that experiment. We liked the school otherwise.

We really like the SLT at Wilson's and the fact that the head still takes classes and has his finger on what is happening at that level was a big plus.

Both schools have around 90+% children of South Asian descent.

Exactly. And those kids tend to stick in their ethnic groups with few representatives of other backgrounds pretty isolated.

For top private they try to maintain diversity apart from academic skills. But grammar schools are not.

It doesn't even work like that with universities. Maybe in some fields like ...law etc it matters. I have spent last 30 years in Fortune 100 corporations. Only few people I have meet were Oxbridge graduates in those corporations. And I am talking about people employed on the business side as well as R&D scientists. The employers don't look at university as much as courses completed, skills, attitude, past experience etc

But otherwise you are very much spot on.

So which school do you choose in the end? I curious to know. Thanks

Secondary schools are not universities. Attending one with higher-ranking grammar schools means little in terms of better future opportunities. However, some schools try to portray themselves as elite institutions and choose to be the most selective to ensure higher rankings. Certain parents and families drink the magic potion, believing it will guarantee their child's success regardless of suitability. It is a self-perpetuating myth.

haha, no, I mean if someone on here was asking about, say, whether it'd be worth subjecting their kids to a long commute so that they could go to a super selective grammar rather than their local comp, or even whether it's worth moving the family to make attending the grammar doable, that'd be a perfectly sensible question which might I suppose attract a range of opinions. each option would have very distinct pros and cons.

but asking about a family move driven by an attempt to work out which is 'better' out of two essentially identical institutions, that's getting into far less sensible territory. I'd almost call it nonsensical.

i think what OP is looking for is some kind of prestige ranking within super selective grammars that's somehow comparable to, say, the way that Oxford and Cambridge are 'ahead' of the other universities, which they objectively are in at least some ways... more difficult courses, more small numbers teaching sessions, better employment and postgraduate funding opportunities... but there is no such tier list within the top dozen or so super selective grammars, nothing like it at all.

Renting around (20m max driving) Wilsons is much cheaper than QE
Both schools have around 90+% children of South Asian descent. Not all will become CEOs as those roles require a lot more than academics, a good degree is more than sufficient for academics.
Wilson has more football focus thanks to its larger grounds

Arkley or Hadley are nicer areas, avoid Dollis Valley.

It's disappointing that you've reduced this conversation to simple envy issues, missing much of the nuance. The choice discussed here is between two top schools, and people were advising the original poster to consider factors beyond minor differences in grades or performance, like social fit, commute, and other practical aspects. While the discussion did stray a bit, these points remain valid: grammar schools generally follow the same curriculum and hold similar expectations. Yet, parents often overlook these crucial factors, instead fixating on GCSE or A-level results when making decisions between school A and B

When applying for a job nobody looks at the secondary school you completed.

Competitions- some universities do consider it, it can open the door ... but some like Oxbridge look only at grades.
What opens the door are useful skills, relevant experience: through courses ( programming etc) interships and volunteering.
24 years ago in California, I worked all summer for free for American Express. This intership helped me to secure a first job.

It always makes me laugh tbh because in the real world I feel like it's quite a common thing that the most academic are rarely the rich/successful ones.

Barnet is safe OP, boys go together on public transport and I wouldn't be driving there in rush hour.

Honestly, entry into the corporate world might be based in part on academic results but success thereafter is based on a whole raft of other things - hard work, mentoring, self confidence, interpersonal skills, opportunity and sheer luck. A string of grade 9s is a very very small part of it. And if you do have a string of grade 9s it doesn’t really matter where they were from