Yearly warning not to take A-level maths with less than a 7 at GCSE

@Furthermths i think that’s appalling. Particularly in a private setting where small class sizes and catering to the needs of each pupil is lauded. It’s the same curriculum as for every other school taking it (slight variability between exam boards I expect) so why does the pace need to be so fast?

What does your dd want to do after sixth form? If FM will be needed / an advantage I would definitely be pushing school more.

Too add ...maths would be a fourth A level if allowed. As his sixth form insist on EPQ they may say no to him plus maybe timetable issues round his other subjects.

One would think getting 9 in maths and further maths at gcse would make her a good candidate for both maths A levels.
My ds got 8 in gcse and 9 in further. He is looking at maths (not further) as an A level if his sixth form lets him. Finds out today...
He doesn't want to do further as other subjects he likes plus although good at maths thinks further would be too much maths for him.

My DD got 9’s in Maths & Further Maths (over 90% in both).
However she was in the B set at her private school where some FM content was taught and she had to learn the rest herself and chose to sit FM. In Yr 7, she was moved up to the A set but found the pace too fast, didn’t say anything and ended up with gaps in her knowledge and was moved back down where the pace suited her more. She worked really hard to fill those gaps and achieve what she did, with some additional support from home.

She was considering FM at A level alongside definitely doing Maths. However the school have convinced her not to do it, making her worried about the pace of learning as only a handful of students do FM A level and they tend to be the top of the A sets who can work at a faster pace.

I personally think she has the ability, but am concerned that I don’t want her to feel like I’m pushing her to do it. I also don’t want my annoyance at the school’s attitude (I feel they should have said ‘don’t worry, we will support you if you find the pace too fast’) to cloud judgement here. Maybe they are right?

I’d be grateful for your thoughts!

Depending on exam board, A-level biology is only about 10% maths- for those who get about a grade 6, the maths is usually doable and achievable, there's not necessarily a major advantage to having a 9. The questions are worded in a much more precise way than GCSE, and for AQA at least, there is also a 25 mark essay- so strong English skills may be more important.

I also agree that there's so much content that it's super important to have the skills to revise and work hard for pretty much any A-level, but certainly for A-level Bio, there is a lot you need to remember and then apply and have good evaluative skills too.

Around me, I know a lot of sixth forms ask for a 6 in English in order to do A-level Bio (and psychology etc)- those with lower English grades often struggle with the way the questions are worded and expressing their answers in the way that's needed to get top marks. I'm sure there are students with lower English grades who can manage this, but I'd say that students who find English a challenge will likely find it difficult to access aspects of an A-level Biology paper and answer the questions well! This isn't to say they are bad biologists, but to pick up top marks, they have to be able to understand the questions and communicate their answers well.

We have students who come in at about the 6-6 level who end up with D grades in biology, obviously I'd expect a student with 9s to do a lot better, but if the English grade wasn't there, I can see why they'd struggle. In other subjects, those Grade 6 students do seem to do a lot better- but there's less content- we are still teaching at Easter of Y13 (also have to fit in the practical endorsement which doesn't help) whereas some colleagues have been revising in class for about a month at that point.

Thank you all. I think she’s feeling a little “off” as she was predicted an 8/9 in English Language, felt the paper went really well and just scraped a 6. Got a 7 in Computer Science - aced the programming paper but the other one let her down.

She knew she wasn’t getting her predicted 9 in maths after paper 2 but she got a high 8. All her 8s were high 8s but we’re not going for remarks. I think it’s best to just accept and move on.

She was predicted all 8s and 9s and a 7 in drama. She got a 9 in drama in the end 😂😂

So a bit of a mixed bag vs predicted grades. I think she feels she “sacrificed” the top grades in some subjects to ensure she got better grades in her weaker subjects.

She has a great work ethic though and her maths teacher thinks she’s a natural mathematician so I just don’t think she should be feeling as worried as she is. She also tends to get the hard stuff right and make silly mistakes on the easy stuff. That’s much more “fixable”.

I do want to say that getting all As and A stars (plus one erroneous 6) is an amazing achievement when you’re not a natural all rounder. I really think she’ll come into her own when she follows a much narrower programme of studies in the sixth form.

I'm wondering if part of the problem is that there is such a move away from humanities on some level that kids are no longer encouraged to follow their strengths when choosing A Level subjects.

Thank you all. I think she’s feeling a little “off” as she was predicted an 8/9 in English Language, felt the paper went really well and just scraped a 6. Got a 7 in Computer Science - aced the programming paper but the other one let her down.

She knew she wasn’t getting her predicted 9 in maths after paper 2 but she got a high 8. All her 8s were high 8s but we’re not going for remarks. I think it’s best to just accept and move on.

She was predicted all 8s and 9s and a 7 in drama. She got a 9 in drama in the end 😂😂

So a bit of a mixed bag vs predicted grades. I think she feels she “sacrificed” the top grades in some subjects to ensure she got better grades in her weaker subjects.

She has a great work ethic though and her maths teacher thinks she’s a natural mathematician so I just don’t think she should be feeling as worried as she is. She also tends to get the hard stuff right and make silly mistakes on the easy stuff. That’s much more “fixable”.

@RatherBeOnVacation this doesn't answer your question, but here's a thread from last year which has some anecdotes that may help a bit. https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/secondary/5143674-maths-a-level-without-gcse-further-maths .

Maybe assure her that once she is in the classroom and doing the work, that actual experience her brain has will supersede the worry. At the moment her brain is fizzing away speculating to fill the yawning void of not knowing what it feels like to be an A level student, and it's grabbing onto anything negative. There is probably no statistical significance in the difference between a high 8 and a low 9 anyway. They have to draw the boundary somewhere but if this year's students had sat last year's paper, or next year's, some of the high 8s would be low 9s and vice versa. I'm not sure it's helpful to feed the whole 8/9 thing though, I might be more inclined to just go with this is what your brain is doing, it evolved to keep you safe but is in overdrive etc.

@ErrolTheDragon Loving the solution to the A⭐typing problem too. I hope it catches on!

It’s a sign I’ve been interested in education threads far too long!

Interesting reading this, my DD got a 9 in Maths and 8 in Further Maths (actually only two points away from a 9). I’m so please she did well as she’s planning to take Maths and Further Maths at A level along with Spanish and Economics. Feels like a strong mix, I hope!

@ErrolTheDragon Thank you. I think you’ve hit the nail on the head. Essay subjects really aren’t her strong point and she worked overtime to get good grades in those subjects. Being able to concentrate on the subjects she loves will make things much easier for her.

I just want to give her head a bit of a wobble to be honest. I guess that shamefully, I too have been swallowed up by the many social media posts talking of people getting 20+ grade 9s 😂😂😂

@ErrolTheDragon please may I congratulate you on the most amazing way to quote the highest grades available without converting all the text to bold. Please, take a bow and a 🌟

afaik there aren’t many engineering courses which require A specifically in maths. If they ask for AAA most of them will be happy with the star being on physics (or the third subject). And there are excellent courses which don’t need any stars.
She’s certainly not ruined her chances with those gcse grades! Some students find A levels a hard jump; others, liberated from the subjects that they had to do for gcse but didn’t love really hit their stride and thrive.

Which is just utterly bonkers!!!!

@noblegiraffe Thank you. Her sixth form only expects you to have done normal GCSE maths, not further so I’m sure she’ll be fine.

She’s just a bit down on herself after “only” getting three 9s, three 8s, two 7s (one going for remark) and a 6. She wants to do engineering at university and getting an A star in A-level maths is fairly fundamental for top universities. All her STEM subjects were the 8s and 9s and she got a 9 in physics. We’ve told her not to worry and she’s done brilliantly but she thinks she’s ruined her chances.

To add, her school didn’t offer further maths so it was never an option.

@noblegiraffe Are there any statistics on % of those who got a 9 at GCSE but also took GCSE Further Maths?

When my DD was looking at sixth forms there was a prerequisite you would have a 9 at GCSE to do further maths and several of them required catch up work over the summer if your school didn’t offer further maths.

Her place to study maths, further maths, physics and DT is confirmed but it’s playing on the back of her mind that she “only” got a high 8 in maths and she’s “not good enough”.

I read somewhere that a very high proportion of 9 grades are those who have studied further maths too but now I can’t find it!!!

I know kids who got 9s in maths and biology and still struggled with A level biology

Anecdotally my DD says there are some students in all her A level subjects (Chem, Biol, History) who got 9 at GCSE but have struggled with A level because they haven't learnt how to effectively revise, because they found GCSEs easy and could wing it.

The reality is that all A levels are hard, all require you to work, and all are easier to get good grades in if you achieved a good grade in GCSE (and the stats shared are not representative of the current situation because they are affected by Covid years). Maths is not unique in this, it's just common sense. Where Maths is unique is what a core subject it is, that's why it's the most popular A level. And as good as the idea of core maths is because there's so much focus from the top Universities on the 3 A levels above anything else I can see not many sixth form colleges offering core maths because it'll be seen as a distraction.

I got my daughter a subscription to numerise. I've set it to target grade 7-9

I pointed this out on a thread and it didnt ho down well @noblegiraffe!
I know kids who got 9s in maths and biology and still struggled with A level biology