Appealing for a secondary school place

Hi I'm in a similar situation , just wondered what the outcome was of your appeal?
Thanks

@MHhh Probably best off starting a new thread then people will be more likely to see and respond! There are a number of us here happy to help.

I've some question abt the yr 7 appeal, can I seek the advise from you? thank you.

it's really a stressful stuff especially we are new to this country....

JulietteHelen - You need a contingency plan in case your appeal does not succeed. Which is your home borough? They are not obliged to make you any second offer so you need to join waiting lists, in the hope of finding a school place for September. If you are close to Harris CP then presumably you are not far from neighbouring boroughs.

For the appeal, you need to identify positive arguments in favour of your child attending the preferred school, and why they will be disadvantaged if they don’t get a place. Arguments against the allocated school aren’t relevant and bear in mind that anything that sounds like disparaging the students at the allocated school could backfire on you - for all you know, panel members have children at that school.

Start a new thread - you'll get some very helpful advice on your appeal. Essentially you need to look at all the things your appeal school has that your offered school doesn't. Don't mention the negatives of the offered school. But things like appeal school is only one that offers German and he has been having German lessons, or he is a talented oboe player and appeal school is only one with a wind band will all help.

There’s a thread from earlier this year about secondaries in SN, looking for alternatives to the Harris (have tried to link below, hope it works!)

It sounds like you’ve made your decision but If the Harris is Outstanding, are you sure it won’t work for your son? It surely can’t only be ‘Outstanding’ for the groups you mention

SN schoolshttps://www.mumsnet.com/talk/secondary/4501358-south-norwood-secondary-black-hole

Good luck!

Hi @JulietteHelen you might want to ask fir your post to be removed as it names people. Also would suggest starting your own thread. Are you appealing for the desired school? Are you on waiting lists for any others? The advice is not to decline a place unless you can go private or home educate. Is private a possibility in financial terms? If you are appealing, there are lots of helpful experts on this board

Hi hoping to get some advice re upcoming appeal to Harris Crystal Palace. We live 0.7 miles from the school and my two elder boys both attended there with excellent outcomes. My youngest DS got 3A in the entrance test, and is interested in tech etc, it was first on our list.

Instead he was offered a place at Harris South Norwood, 0.6 miles but far larger, and outstanding if you are EAN, FSM, at risk of gang affiliation, criminal activity, domestic violence and mental health issues, which ofsted identify as the prevalent issues for kids at school. Unfortunately DS is small and skinny, middle class, white, shy and a bully magnet, diagnoses of ASD/ADHD/DCD and SPD, shuts down if the classroom is noisy, and needs a quiet, kind, studious peer group to support his learning. We felt we had no choice but to refuse the place, so he now has no school to attend.

I just paid £370 for a pointless consult with someone from the Good Schools Guide, who didn't know where we live, or anything about the school, and gave me completely wrong information and was overwhelmingly negative about the appeal, suggesting instead that we get a list of schools with places from Croydon, also approach lambeth and southwark, which she seemed to think we are right on the border of even though we are not, and made us very depressed that he's not going to get a school at all.

We are going to apply for EHCP, but his needs are not at that level in his current school, which is mixed intake. I have always thought that private schools are a bit risky for SEN boys, due to the alpha male bullying and omnipresence of heavy substance misuse, I work in ADHD and have never seen any of my young male patients do particularly well in these settings, plus expense of course....but now wondering if there are any suitable schools anyone could recommend as we are desperate not to let (redacted) down,

Thanks,

Helen

As long as it's legible, it doesn't matter. I quite like bullet points because they're focused, but as long as you are clear about why you think he should be given a place, that's fine.

@Lougle thank you for the advice. I know what I need to say it’s just how to word it. So this very helpful. Do I write it in sort of bullet points as my reasons to why he should attend their school or like a letter. I’m not too sure

@Lou22345891 always focus on the school you want, not the school you don't want. So anything negative about your allocated school has to presented as a positive feature of your desired school.

School A has a large intake. School B has a small intake which will be essential for Tommy due to his disability.

School A has lots of stairs and Tommy will find that hard. School B has a level site with very few stairs. Tommy finds stairs particularly difficult, so a level site will help him to be independent as he mobilises.

School A is rough School B is known for its nurturing culture. Tommy requires nurture as he has been bullied for his physical disability and lacks self-esteem.

Hi, sorry to jump on the post. Please let me know if this isn’t allowed. My son was offered he’s 3rd choice and we are all devastate he didn’t get he’s first but the school is over subscribed and has 2 feeder primary schools so very difficult to get into. Anyway, I am planning to appeal against the decision but I don’t know where to start. He is my eldest so I’ve never dealt with an appeals process and feel very out of my depth. My son has a physical disability that makes him a target for bullying. (It’s already happened in primary school) 1st choice school is a faith school and he is christened and also done he’s conformation, we have a supporting letter from the priest from our local parish. We have a support letter from our occupational therapist to support he’s needs to be in an setting where there isn’t an high intake of children. Apart from that we don’t really have a lot to go on the school he was allocated is very rough but I know I can’t put that on the appeals form. If someone could please help me with how I word the appeals form or have any advice. I would really appreciate it. Thank you

Thank you all for your thoughts!

I agree too with PatriciaHolm and prh47bridge.

Appeals based on a school being in special measures or “not good enough” don’t succeed. The panel is not going to say “you’re quite right, it’s an awful school and your child shouldn’t have to go there” and the appeals code gives them no scope to make such a decision.

Likewise, appeals based on staying with friends from primary school don’t succeed, unless there is evidence from health care professionals that the child has medical or social needs for which support from their friendship circle is needed. Otherwise, schools and appeal panels will take the view that children will make new friends as they settle into secondary school.

The strongest argument here is about sports provision, but as has already been said, even that argument works both ways. The panel might take the view that, for a child already competing at national level, school sports provision is irrelevant because they’ve already surpassed that.

Agree, as ever, with prh - it is a complaint against a school, not for a specific one.

You need specific reasons why the detriment to your child of not attending *this school" outweigh the detriment to the school of taking another pupil. This might be subjects or specialisms only they offer and that can't be got elsewhere, usually combined with chipping away at the school's argument that it is full and cannot take any more pupils in Year 7 because of space/staffing constraints, etc.

It isn't relevant for a number of reasons.

You are appealing for the school you want, not against the school you've got. Some children will have to go to the school in special measures, so using that as an argument would essentially be saying that this school is not good enough for your child, which won't go down well. Also, most schools in special measures are turned around pretty quickly.

Remember that, although the appeal panel will not include anyone with links to the appeal school, it is possible that one of the members will have links to the school you've been allocated.

[quote PatriciaHolm]@sophieR1234

On the face of it, I'm afraid your arguments are pretty weak. The school being in special measures is essentially irrelevant.

Many children got to secondary schools where they know none or few people, and those who do know people are often in different tutor groups so don't see them anyway. Unless you have strong medical evidence that your son is particularly affected, this isn't an effective argument.

The sports argument maybe has more potential, but it seems as if he's being very successful already outside of school and so a school club won't be very helpful anyway and the panel are likely to take the view that he can continue as he is now, at least in that sport, outside of school, without detriment.[/quote]
Thanks @PatriciaHolm for your thoughts.

Can I just ask please why it is irrelevant on appeals? And if asked, should I not mention it as one of our reasons?

Thanks again.

@sophieR1234

On the face of it, I'm afraid your arguments are pretty weak. The school being in special measures is essentially irrelevant.

Many children got to secondary schools where they know none or few people, and those who do know people are often in different tutor groups so don't see them anyway. Unless you have strong medical evidence that your son is particularly affected, this isn't an effective argument.

The sports argument maybe has more potential, but it seems as if he's being very successful already outside of school and so a school club won't be very helpful anyway and the panel are likely to take the view that he can continue as he is now, at least in that sport, outside of school, without detriment.

Hello everyone. Apologies for jumping in. Please let me know if not allowed.

I would like to ask your opinions in regards to my son’s appeal.

He was the only one from his current school allocated to a secondary school that was recently put under special measures. Although it has been 3 years, no significant progress on school’s exam results/attainment/progress reviews.

I am a shielding mom and so my children have had limited social interaction during those times, they know my condition and the risk that goes with it and so, may have affected them in some ways.
I would like to argue that my son may feel neglected and isolated as a result of being the only one going to allocated school.

He is extremely into sports and competes on a national level. We have recommendations from his current school & coach. The school we are appealing to have a wide range of sports opportunities but the allocated one is limited, particularly on the sport he is excelling with.

School appealing to is oversubscribed since 2016.

Thank you for your advice!

Thanks I’m not sure the school will argue it’s full as looking at the statistics available the overall capacity of the school is still approx 100 pupils under capacity. The pan has being exceeded in 4 of the last 5 years also.

I agree the information is the tricky part especially trying to find out what subjects are taught at what school. The school I’m appealing for offers a triple science award which my son is looking to achieve aswell as gcse PE as he’s looking to be a sports therapist when older and the school offered just does the double science award it does teach PE also but looking at latest GCSE results I can’t see any GCSE level PE results. Apart from the ebacc subjects there’s not much extra on the latest published school results. I understand choices are available at ks4 but feel it’s important for the school we go to to have these on the curriculum. My son plays football and boxes competitively now so is pretty head strong already at 11 years old at the career he’s wanting to take. Stressful times for us all at the moment any help is massively appreciated. Thanks

@AvaCallanach totally agree, I haven’t felt this consumed by something since going through four rounds of IVF!

The actual appeal was fine, Mstiva. It was preparing the arguments and getting evidence and the anticipation that was so hard, and the stakes being so high of course. Though we were lucky that our alternate school was ok, but just wasn't what (we felt) our child needed for their particular circumstances.

The two part bit was straightforward. The school rep basically says the school is full and can't take more pupils. Then if the panel agrees that the school is full it becomes your turn to argue your case.

We only spent a minute or two arguing against the school (they always have a couple of extra students and have improving results anyway) and then moved on to why this school and only this school could meet our child's particular needs.

The appeal panel will do their best to put you at ease, but most people find it stressful.

Was the appeal as daunting as it’s made out to be? We have ours early June it’s a 2 part appeal first part is written when school puts there case forward aswell