Tell me we haven't lost the plot to be turning down a grammar place for DS

I went to a small rural comp with not great results (think it was 35% who left with 5 GCSEs at A-C). One of my parents' friends described it as "a training ground for Borstall"! BUT, I had friends there, the teachers knew everyone really well (small school), I felt supported and comfortable there, so I worked hard and did well.

If your son is telling you that he likes the look of the small local comp, listen to him. Children thrive in an environment they feel comfortable in.

Ps. I got into Oxford....

With DS1 we had a huge selection of schools he could have gone to Grammar, Bilateral (basically a huge comp but with 11+ for grammar stream ) a couple of secondary moderns.....we opted to bus him to a comprehensive in the next town. It gets the same results as the bilateral school, we liked that it had a 6th form, wouldn't be pushy (DS can't cope with pressure) and they claimed their pastoral care was second to none ( I scoffed, but it really is - the staff are amazing!). The big down side is after school clubs/ matches/homework clubs.

I've decided to send all my DC there, but if I could move closer I would.

DS1 now has the opportunity to go to the grammar for 6th form, and he can see the school for what it is (aged 11 he couldn't) and doesn't want to go at all, but neither does he want to continue his long commute. ATM he's thinking of the (outstanding) bilateral school, although I'm concerned the pastoral care won't very good.

It depends what you want from a school.

FWIW my son went to the oversubscribed local comp. It has a new building and fantastic facilities but has gone into special measures. DS loves the school but his results are atrocious. I have older children and know that like many boys he will not start to really work until after age 13 or so . I know he will be ok so whilst I am keeping an eye on him and speaking to his teacher I am not really stressing.OP if your son works hard he will do well anywhere and the main thing is that he is happy.

Here are some things to think about if you have a high ability child at a mixed ability school.

What % of like ability children attend. You don't want yours to be an outlier (both in terms of psychological impact but also in terms of distribution of resources).

How do these pupils ultimately perform. Check the % of As at GCSE. If the school conflate A/A ask for a breakdown.

Does the school set. In what subjects. When.

Is triple science offered and to which pupils.

Which MFLs are offered.

What does an average GCSE option block look like (ensuring there aren't spaces where only non-academic subjects are offered).

Does it have a sixth form. What % of pupils stay on for A level. Look at the numbers and the grades. what does the leavers destinations look like.

I spend a lot of time visiting schools as part of the widening access scheme (for Oxbridge) and am often disappointed at the provision for our most able pupils.

Does the comp have sets?

Also can you find the value added score for children who enter the school as high achievers? I believe this info is normally out there. Someone on mn found the info for dds school when I was freaking out slightly and I was reassured by it.

Was thinking about this last night and dds school sets for academic subjects. Which I think has made a huge difference. For subjects like art, music they're not set....just in form groups. Dd says the behaviour differences between the set subjects and the non set subjects is huge. Maybe a bit of a generalisation but in her experience it's true.

I don't think I'd be happy with a comp which didn't set as the range of ability can be so huge and being lumped together is beneficial for neither end.

The poor value added score for the local comp would worry me.

I would have a look at the comp GCSE results. I think you do need a "critical mass". My DS is at good comp and will have "student council" and "prefect" on his CV.

What did you say to the grammar school, OP? Did you turn it down?

You can't play matches at lunchtime.........

My friend has 3 DS's who all didn't even apply for the local grammar, because they wanted to go to the local comp instead. It has a very mixed intake and is graded "good" Her boys would almost certainly have passed the 11+

They are all doing/have done spectacularly well

Our grammar does clubs at lunch time as so many travel from afar,are you sure yours doesn't?

Why can't he meet his friends after school?Hoards of kids have to travel to school and manage it.

You're in a bit of a fix OP.

The GS sounds a logistical nightmare, ad the comp sounds very underwhelming.

Do you know what the % of high ability children in the comp? You say many DC in your area go to GS or private. Does this leave the comp thin on children in the same ability group as your DS?

I would not be happy with that at all.

The happiness of the child is the most important thing not the exam results. In years to come it won't matter if they get an A* instead of an A but they will remember if they are happy or not. Check out the gifted and talented offerings at the comp then let him be with his friends and be top of the class and flying and happy.

He won't be able to tqke part in any after school clubs, or meet his friends after school. That has to be a deal breaker, surely?

If the comp school is never oversubscribed have you thought about doing a deal with your DS where by he is giving the grammar a chance for a couple of terms (ideally a whole year) and if he still hates it he then moves to the comp school?

This is the only compromise I would have done back when my DS took the 11+ exam. And yes, he goes to a school where he travels 45 minutes by bus but he made friends and he loves it. I take turns with another mother to take two DCs to school in the morning as it is quicker (15 min ride) and he comes home by bus.

I agree with those who say that independent travel is an important aspect of the choice. I had to take two buses to get to my school and was one of the only people to not live close by. I had almost no social life and - importantly - no friends to study with when exams came around.

I was also bottom in a highly academic school and found it a miserable experience.

My only slight misgiving in your place, OP is that the school is rated only 'good'. I'd want to know that they set (not stream) from day 1, or at least from Year 8 in order to ensure your DS gets the best possible learning environment.

You could still appeal for the good comp - it doesn't matter that you are a long way down the waiting list, or far away in terms of distance, or that they haven't made a mistake - you can still appeal, if you think there are good reasons why it's the best school for him, better than the school's reasons for saying they are full.

A good few years ago now but many friends of mine attended an all boys grammar. They hated it and would never ever send their children there. It was conformist and stifling. Yes, they all got good O Levels but didn't necessarily go on to great things. Does the comp have more of a dynamic, creative feel?

Was n't the superb comp also some distance away?

Your DS would obviously have a more relaxed, happy childhood locally particularly since he has a nice bunch of local friends going there.
However for enjoying the academics, attainment and later opportunities that is more difficult.
This is not particularly helpful but three factors seem to contribute the most to how turned on a DC is by education in teenage years: peer group, really good teaching or at least one parent who is prepared to be very involved, do a lot of leg work, supplementing and pushing when needed.
If you are prepared to do the latter until GCSEs that may work out with a change at sixth form

Being at a school that lives and dies on its exam results can be soul destroying. Don't underestimate that.

Anyway you ended up arguing cogently on MN so it can't have been that bad

"it's single-sex, heavily religious, is difficult to get to, has a claustrophobic and tired campus, he knows no one there, etc). It would be difficult for us logistically - I honestly don't know how I'd make the grammar work with transport/work/DS being able to participate fully in after-school clubs (he wouldn't be able to)"

It sounds awful. And the the deal breaker for me is that last bit- what's the point of going to a school were you can't go to after school clubs, play for teams, be in plays, b go back to friends houses.......

DfE section of gov.uk publishes quite a lot of detail on individual schools.