OFQUAL have spoken.

Employers don't want stricter grade boundries - they want stable grade boundries and quality exam testing so they know what they looking at and can compare from year to year.

I am an employer and look for Grade B (not C) - I expect most employers know now what they are looking for. Mess with the boundries, so they regress and we still don't know what is going on! Do we now change to C grades or not? I would much prefer things to have stabilised - that would give us 9 grades to choose from.

What do people think about the views of employers who have welcomed stricter grade boundaries?

As an English HOD I am devastated for pupils I really care about, however if you want to really understand the issue read Geoff Barton's blog, GB, the writer of text books for AQA and a significant figure in education circles, has expressed the feelings of us .

I hear what you say Copthall, and you are right it's mainly the teachers complaining although every child I know on or near an English grade boundary this year is now feeling cheated too thanks to the media coverage. But I don't square you saying there were 40% fewer A/A grades for Eng. Lit this year with Ofqual saying there were 1.5% fewer A-C grades, or the bbc saying that the numbers of A*/A grades for Eng. Lit. were 23.2% this year compared with 25% last year which is hardly the dramatic fall you are claiming, especially when you think they've been rising progressively year on year for the last 20 years.

The cohort ability won't change much year on year, but there were a few (~4%) jumped ship to iGCSE this year and those will in the main have been higher ability, so this year the average level probably is ever so slightly lower.

Universities will take broadly the same number of students for Eng lit courses each year and choose the best of those who apply. If in a couple of years it transpires that you are right and a lot of their applicants have Bs and they can't fill their places with students who got As, then they will have to relax their standards a bit - they will obviously be selecting the best candidates from those who apply.

Sorry, link that works www.telegraph.co.uk/education/educationnews/9512114/Private-schools-examiners-moved-goalposts-on-GCSEs.html

glaurung It is one thing to be advising your child to learn from this experience that she could have worked harder to have made sure she was well within the grade boundary and quite another to then extrapolate to all the dc from that year thinking they'd underachieved and complaining. The outcrys isn't just from the dcs, it's the entire teaching profession. This unfairness didn't discriminate between the able and those who struggle. http://www.telegraph.co.uk/education/educationnews/9512114/Private-schools-examiners-moved-goalposts-on-GCSEs.html This article quotes the Head of Wycombe Abbey. Are you seriously arguing that her cohort this year were so much less able or hardworking that the number of A/As in English Literature was 40% lower (and there was a similar decline at DDs highly selective school, though they used a different board, with many who had had coursework graded A in English Literature in particular then finding themselves at the A/B borderline. Some of those DCs scored 100%of the UMS marks in other essay based subjects) I have yet to hear of a school in my area either state or private that is not seeking wholesale remarking and coursework remoderation. I wear two hats, as a parent of a GCSE pupil and an academic who gets called on for advice by our course admission tutor. Some of the DCs at DDs school were predicted A*and had a talent for English Literature they planned to persue at university. Since Literature is part of my cross disciplinary specialism at uni and I have discussed with them my research, and the set text my expertise would particularly help them with I am quite sure they would be excellent candidiates but a B at GCSE in a normal year would effectively preclude them from the best courses.

I don't think this is a bunch of moaning dcs who should have worked harder. There is a real issue here and I am very concerned that when it comes to considering candidates in a couple of years time that we will have no way of knowing if a pupil missed an A grade by a couple of marks, and would have got an A in another year or is very firmly a B. I know that many unis, including most definitely my course, will be very receptive to schools highlighting the actual UMS marks if they were close to the grade boundary.

That does seem unfair Kez, but we're told only 2% of candidates submitted CAs in January and a lot of those weren't on the C/D borderline, so it's very few who were unfairly advantaged there. There were quite a lot more who sat the Jan foundation exam though and they did indeed strike lucky.

It does seem this has been a problem more to do with expectations being set wrong than anything else. Since there was only a 1.5% drop in the A*-C pass rate (and from a less able cohort) there aren't actually that many dc who would have achieved higher grades last year on the old syllabus. And going back another year to 2010 they had a very similar passrate from arguably a more able cohort and yet we didn't have all the dc from that year thinking they'd underachieved and complaining.

The main changes were on the C/D borderline because the Foundation exam needed an extra 10 marks to get a C Grade.

There may have been some disparity on CA borderlines for the higher grade students but that's all, whereas foundation students had CA borderline changes and the 10 extra marks on their exam to score before getting a C in June. In January 43/44 gave them a C and in June is was 53 marks. A huge increase and, I have heard, only 10% got a C on that paper, whereas 37% got a C in January in the foundation exam.

bossboggle, dd is the same - just missed the A which she was predicted in both englishes by a whisker. We could blame the CA grade boundary changes (which did move), or that she's had lots of teachers (4 I think in 2 years), or that she's mildly dyslexic and finds english tough, or that she wasn't very well when she took the exam, but to be perfectly honest it's her least favorite subject and the most likely explanation is she didn't put the effort required in to get a safe A and missed out this time. If you are a bit of a borderline student then you do need to work extra hard to be sure of getting your grade, but it's always easier to blame something else.

It looks to me as though the January students got lucky & some of the rest (including the teachers) got a bit too complacent and forgot the CA grade boundaries often do change (happens in science very often).

I agree the whole thing stinks .

itchyandscratchy - that sounds such excellent ,practical advice which students affected now could benefit from
Schools have access to the exam board mark breakdown for every student. If it was now up to me (I'm not a headteacher but I'm seriously thinking of suggesting this to my head), I would take the mark from the exam board site, include it on an official letter signed by the head for each student who was predicted a C and got a D instead; and tell the student to include this letter alongside the student's exam certificates, which clearly reminds employers of the fiasco this year, outlines where the boundaries were in January and then in June and where this student's mark was.

and you.38degrees.org.uk/petitions/reinstate-grading-system-for-gcses-that-teachers-and-pupils-were-working-to

( not looked at link ,but in case others want to )

So my DS got a B in English Language in July - does that mean that it is possible he was downgraded too he was predicted an A or does it mean he just didn't try hard enough - I'm confused!!

I also thought it was a problem boundaries could vary further as teachers were not told grade boundaries and were in the dark.

can units 2 and 3 not be resubmitted for Nov?

It is not the children's fault that OfQual did not get its house in order years ago regarding grade inflation. If it gets away with this last minute cheating, how can we trust that next year the same thing will not happen again?

Please sign this petition:
you.38degrees.org.uk/petitions/reinstate-grading-system-for-gcses-that-teachers-and-pupils-were-working-to

magenta - spot on.

Why can't students resubmit unit 2 and 3 marks in November?

There are always gcse resits for English and Maths in November for people who miss the grade in June but want a chance at getting to college. All they're saying this time is that you won't need to pay if you want to resit in November.

PS I always thought it was the difficulty of the paper that was prone to vary, rather than the standard of the students overall?

How much variation is there between years? Isn't the middle 15% or the top 15% broadly similar every year. I get that there might be a few stand out students in a particular year, but across the country does is make that much difference year on year?

AQA English results are very unfair this year - if you reach an adequate standarsd you should be merited for it. I also think many teachers may have marked CA's a little hard this year as they were wary of new spec. This happened in my school we now think.

November exams for free - do you understand this? Do they always do exams in Nov or is it usually Jan and June?

Copthall I'd second that. It is bad enough now doing admissions (especially as a strong performance at A level does not necessarily mean they will do well at uni).

If we had to work out good years from bad it would be impossible

sashh And that is what universities want to go back to, they don't really care about the grade, they care about getting the top, or middle students. Where do you get that from? I am involved in admissions at my uni and what we want is to be able to compare candidates whatever year they took the exam, we most certainly don't want to have to factor into the decision whether that was an easy or a difficult year . The main issue with the current exams is that too high a percentage get the top grade, and possibly that they do so because they are trained to perform to a mark scheme, so it makes it harder to identify who actually has the skills and ability to excel at your subject, and therefore deserves a place on your course at a time when you are getting record numbers of applications from very able candidates. Gove hasn't done anything to address the real issues. This is just political meddlingthat pleases noone but Gove.

Exactly magenta.

I don't doubt what you are saying sash but universities need to understand that results are not just for them.

So if everyone in a year is weaker than the year above some average students will get A?*

That's what used to happen. Well not A* they didn't exist. In the days of O Levels both O Levels and A Levels were measured agains the candidates so A was the top 10%, B was the next 20% and C the next 20%.

Some years you would need 52% in each exm to get a C, others it would be 45%.

And that is what universities want to go back to, they don't really care about the grade, they care about getting the top, or middle students.

I was made to change my marking this year....ie lower the marks I gave...every paper I sent as a sample was marked down...two papers were ,marked down by 10-15 marks! Nothing to do with me but the exam board...I have marked the same paper for years and was very annoyed to be questioned in this way.
As an aside my son`s headmaster told me that if my son, who is in Year 12, had had the same marks in his GCSE resits last year as he did this summer he would have had Cs not Ds...so it is not just English where the grade boundaries changed but foundation subjects too.
Sad and unfair! In my opinion! Sham on OFQUAL