Europhobe or Europhile?

Linctash - the UK is not part of the Schengen zone and the borders are not open, but monitored, you can't just walk in.

linc, nobody outside England calls it the english channel...

Perhaps you dont realise to what extent britain is already a fortress compared to the rest of europe. You drive across the continent without showing your passport, and suddenly you're at dover, with mirrors under your car, searches, illegal immigrant checks, and if you arrive on the coaches with the poor people, being yelled at as though you were scum by the immigration officers. And you want to strengthen this paranoia even more?
Your posts read like something out of the seventies - do you really think it's practical to sit in Britain, pulling up the drawbridge and shutting the rest of the world out? Do you even think it's moral, considering how the british people benefit from cheap goods manufactured in the countries of origin of these immigrants that you dislike so much?

There is already controlled immigration - the government made policies that allowed certain people to be able to settle in the UK, and that's got nothing to do with the EU, they had the right, iirc, to set policies on this, because france was not so welcoming to Poles, for example (as far as I remember). Blaming new labour is also a bit silly, because the policy of attracting waves of immigrants has been going for at least the last 100 years or so.

Your problem of the gangmasters could be solved overnight if the "illegal" immigrants were made legal, and given temporary seasonal work permits, and encouraged to apply for those jobs, eg by newspaper ads in Romania,so that there was no need for a gangmaster to find them the jobs. Bingo, no more illegal gangs. Oh, the price of veg might rise. Tough decision, eh?

Oh look, the EU wants to remove the name 'The English Channel' and call it 'The Anglo French Pond'. And to add insult to injury, were having to pay for it.

More evidence the EU intends to destroy our national identity, and erase the english from Europe.

here

Ok linctash so the problem is unscrupulous gangmasters and the retailers that buy produce from them without questioning where it's come from. The problem isn't the fault of the immigrants who are being exploited; they're just trying to make a living.

oh and if you think this kind of thing didn't exist before the EU and would be solved by withdrawing from it then you are really naive - in fact it would probably make things worse...

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Umm the problem exists because Labour threw the borders open and the EU gave 600 million people the right to just walk in. If we wernt in the EU, we could close and monitor our borders better, we could set tight limits on who comes here, and we could throw out all the illegal immigrants without having to piss about with 'appeals' and crap like that, like almost every other non-EU country does.

The presence of 3 million immigrants here is the joint fault of Nu Labour and the EU, without any doubt.

Having said that, the Romanians and Albanians ahve created there own industry, trafficking east european girls to stock there brothels with. And ofc ,the begging and pickpocketing trades in London have been entirely taken over by them. And you trip over albanian female beggars with there fake sob stories every few yards at the Eurostar terminal, and there not averse to using kids to thieve and beg. OFC, they know there rights, and they just pretend they suddenly cant speak English when the cops pick them up.

Its exactly as predicted when we found out Albania and Romania were joining the EU.

The black economy in Brussels is mainly the Poles, the Romanians, some Bulgarians. Customers of the black economy are Belgians, Brits, Latvians, anyone who employs one of the Eastern Europeans as cleaners/builders etc (my cleaning lady is legit however).

You do see several of the Romanians/Albanians outside the shops begging and looking dressed in cheap clothing. If you wait long enough, they will be picked up in a large car and driven to their next pitch.

well here in Lincolnshire the black economy consists largely of Poles, Iraqis and Romanians, who do all the land jobs that the locals used to do. They work illegally for Gangmasters (who themselves are usually travellers from round Boston or Newark) so no one pays any income tax, NI or VAT, the illegal immigrants are paid below minimum wage (and I mean well below), all the locals have lost there seasonal jobs and the only people who make a packet are the gangmasters. You frequently see raids of field gangs by Police, Immigration, Tax and DWP officers.

Another fine spinoff of joining the EU..........

My comments are actually straight from Brussels as I live there, and I don't read the Mail.

Turkey is secular on the surface; but not underneath (eyeroll as well). I have Turkish friends here who are are very western in Brussels, but who wear hijab when they go back to Turkey, because they feel they have to, and they tell me that life in Turkey isn't as westernised and secular as some would have us believe. Is that enough proof - I was having this conversation with them last Monday.

I fail to see how articulating concerns about the lack of integration within communities in major European cities is lying. There are areas within Brussels where we are actively discouraged from living because of this.

The point about immigration, both within the EU and outside, is that the UK has a finite amount of space. The infrastructure is not set up to cope with the huge influx that has occurred. There are not enough school places and there is a strain on health resources.

I am anti Federalism - I do not want a United States of Europe; I do not want a single foreign policy, or economic policy being dictated by Brussels. I do not want laws from Brussels over riding the Common law of the UK. I have no problem with the idea of a loose federation of trading states, but no more than that.

Do Muslims have to be brought into everything?

We're really not that exciting.

Scaryteacher, your comments are straight from the Daily Mail. Bring your proof before making such wild (and boring statements).

Oh, and Turkey is SECULAR. eyeroll

It really bother me that people think you can make up whatever lies they want about Muslims and not be challenged.

Anyway, I'm pro-EU, as I believe we can achieve far more together and I'm a bit of an internationalist at heart.

'one is about the failure of non-EU immigrants to integrate into British society. I think somebody raised the point about British Muslims wanting Sharia law and objecting to Christian imagery? Fine, but start another thread as it has nothing to do with the EU as they are mostly immigrants (or the descendants of immigrants) from outside the EU. so it really is irrelevant to the topic...'

But it DOES have to do with the EU and will have even more if Turkey accedes. It is not just a UK problem either - it is becoming a huge problem in Brussels for instance. In one area of the city that is predominantly Muslim the Belgian Police have been told not to eat or drink during Ramadan as it will cause offence. In the UK there are many British born Muslims, they are EU citizens.

I would argue also about those who migrate from east to west working legally. There is a massive black economy in Belgium, and it is mainly those from Eastern Europe involved in it.

The Irish love it so much they had to be made to vote twice for Lisbon. Mmmmm.

The EU is flawed at EVERY level imo, especially with regards to the costs. Why does it need 3 places of work? There is enough room in Brussels for it all to be centralised.

i have no idea why they post above ended up in THIS thread..........

He probably was a viking, they used to be buried with the things they woudl need in Valhalla, like bows, axes, boats, chariots, horse....

Europhile.

I'm Irish, lived in England for ten years and now live in France.

Obviously being Irish I second runnybottom's sentiments.

I agree with Bonsoir's sentiments too that the intentions with which it was set up should never be forgotten. Rampant nationalism was a factor in the lead up to two World Wars and the EU may prevent something similar ever happening again in Europe.

That doesn't mean anyone loses personal sovereignty.

I don't really have anything new to the add to the argument - yes the EU is flawed at many levels - but for me personally it has been a very positive factor in my life. That may be about as simplistic an argument as I can come up with!

People aren't still banging on about "Winterval" are they? That was just a marketing exercise, it wasn't meant to replace christmas. Can't believe anyone falls for that shite still.

I'm Irish. We fecking LOVE the EU.

We dont need Europe, we have the 5th largest economy in the world. if we had joined the euro, we'd be well stuffed now, just like greece, because they cant devalue there currency or change the interest rate, nor can they do quantative easing.

And what makes you think any other nation is going to act in our interest? You only have to use your eyes and watch and you see in the EU its still every nation for itself. Take for example the 3 year long illegal ban on our beef after the BSE crisis by the french, they french saw there opportunity to destroy our beef industry and seized it with both hands, and stuck the knife in. We drop our guard for one second and the french and germans will have us.

Past history tells us you cannot trust the french or germans and recent experience confirms it.

I'm a Europhile,

If you go over to Europe then you see the integration ... transport, money etc it's only greed that spoils the system , and that is down to human nature . Nothing we can do about that . as for the UK not being in the europe , I find that very sad. Gone are the days we could survive in the world by our selves, gone our the days when we forced the majority of the world to speak English, gone are the days when we ruled our land with an iron fist .
Those days can never come back , but we can / must move on...

Oh look, another example http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1263198/Betrayed-Iraq-hero-placed-criminals-queue-home.html here

British war hero, did seven months in Iraq, risking his life for Blairs Illegal War, left the army, and the local council tells him he made himself and his family homeless, and has put him at the back of the queue, after asylum seekers and criminal.

The man is a hero, hes done his bit for queen and country, he a british born national, and we owe him all that. He should go to the top of the list IN FRONT of all the immigrants, who have done nothing for us.

yes, its an outrage. Classic example of sticking two fingers up at us and this country and its systems.

Lincstash - there are 85 (I think) Sharia courts already operating in the UK afaik.