Suella Braverman a disgrace to humanity

I'm not going to be bullied into pretending anyone from anywhere is English.

They have unbranded the staff celebration from Christmas and called it a winter celebration. When some of us asked that it be called Christmas again, it was refused.

It means you say “happy holidays” not “Happy Christmas” and there is no Christmas party.

My DNA is a mixture of various English regions and 4% Northern Germany. Clearly I’m ethnically English. It’s not something I’d go around saying but it’s also not something that is not true.

What do you mean banned?!

In my workplace Christmas has been banned for the last two years. So yes, people are ‘asking’ the English (or is it Christians? Yes I know not all Christians are English of course) to give up our traditions.

Whether you are English is probably whether the reasonable person thinks you are (ie with ancestors going back at least a few generations).

Its interesting to look at it from another perspective. Is Putin right when he says there are ethnic Russians in other countries such as Chechnya and therefore Russia has the right to take their land to protect those Russians? Those Russians may have been there many generations, when the USSR was russifiying the satellite states. Many of them despite being born and raised in Chechnya would say they are Russian. When do they become Chechens? Do they ever? Or are they and their descendants always Russian.

If you came here from India are your descendants always Indian?

Being half English half another country I have to say not once have I ever given this any thought until the identity politics of the last few years.

Oh nonsense. Nobody in the UK is asking anyone to give up their English traditions. What is coming in is in addition, not instead of. Nobody is banning poppies, Christmas, crumpets or cricket. It's just that we now have more choices.

And nobody is stealing English land. Buying it maybe - but that's on the person choosing to sell.

We cannot all agree, because we are not all blinkered nativity.

What is the native English?? I think you’re going to have to start testing everyone’s DNA to establish this and you’ll fine it’s impossible to isolate. There is no single genetic marker of Englishness.

Could you be ethnically Twi, Khmer or Sephardi? (Assuming you aren’t already, of course)

Well this is the key point. The English are supposed to give up their culture and heritage for migrants, but migrants are allowed and encouraged to keep their culture and heritage...and then they try to deny us ours?! Can you not see the problem here?

We have been badgered for years to pay reparations for our ancestors misdeeds but we are also not allowed to have any ancestors or claim to our own land?! I mean can we all agree that the native English are being pushed from pillar to post atm.

That it’s blurred was the whole point of my post and why it’s dangerous what Suella is doing!

I disagree suggesting you can’t be ethnically English if you’re black is racist.

That’s the deal with any ethnicity though. They always have blurred edges. Same with languages. We don’t say English isn’t a language just because we can’t pinpoint the year it became one.

Also the idea that you can’t be ethnically English if you are black isn’t a racist one. It’s just a consequence of what ethnically means.

I can’t be ethnically Khmer, Twi or Sephardi. Could you be?

I think someone of any race can be English. We just use one word to mean two different things.

Suella or anyone are free to answer as they like but it’d be interesting if they countered back to FB or anyone who does that BBC type targeting with ‘why did you ask me not the male, white politician next to me?’

The problem with this discussion is no one is able to tell me when one becomes ethnically English.

If the definition of being ethnically English is sharing a common historical origin in England, Cultural traditions and customs, speaking the English language and a shared national history and identity.

How many generations do have to be able to trace back in England?

How many traditions and customs do you need to follow?

It's all a bit silly in my opinion. It's one thing people ought to decide for themselves. But my issue with Suella take on it is, it very much feels like a dog whistle to all the racists out there who do believe you can't be Ethnically English if you're not white.

But why should she?

If you interviewed someone from Taipei they might say they are not Chinese. We don’t expect them to add “…though others in my situation might feel Chinese and that is valid.”

We don’t expect JKR to add “…though others of course think it’s not their biology that makes them a woman, and that is valid.”

It just feels unnecessary.

It’s good if politicians give their views plainly without hedging.

No @Kingfisherfree10 - it is the English stereotypes and imposing them on others that are out of fashion!
Maybe Reform need to get out there and actually canvas some young people and ask them what they think!
A lot of the kids I am talking about have a lot of different influences and are actively choosing to feel English. Given the falling birthrate, we should be grateful not the opposite. And they aren’t denying anyone their “ancestry”.

The Windrush is a stream that runs through Bourton on the Water, not too far from Hawkestone brewery. It's very olde English.

Nice combo of old & new England.don't ya think.

We are happy for people to live here and JOIN in with us and be culturally English but you cannot deny us our ethnicity hth.

You're allowed to be English. Of course you are. But this para of your does suggest that people can only come over here if they abandon their own culture to be English. I hope that isn't what you meant.

I don’t like Braverman, but no need for all this over egged hyperbole. She just expressed a view, that probably won’t be implemented. 🤷‍♀️

I've heard it all now. Having English ancestry is unfashionable. We really are in a lot of trouble as a country. Whether you like it or not there are a group of people called the English (We reside in the Shires now). We are happy for people to live here and JOIN in with us and be culturally English but you cannot deny us our ethnicity hth.

But it’s personal and not every woman will feel the same way. It’s madness to vilify anyone over this.

In your opinion.

In fact I also grew up in a multicultural part of London and attended a comprehensive school with people from different ethnicities. Perhaps not that wildly different from your children's schools. But I consider myself English as well as British.

Just because someone has a different opinion or sense of self identity than you it doesn't make them wrong. Let alone a "disgrace to humanity" re the allegation against Ms Braverman.

What? That doesn’t make sense to me. I’m English, but surely if you’re Welsh, Scottish or N Irish there’s a massive distinction. No wonder they get pissed off.

@Twiglets1 - I don’t agree. My kids and their friends grew up in ENGLAND. Not Scotland, not Wales and not NI. So they feel English, most of them and in fact they probably mostly feel like Londoners anyway.
There is no need to make this massive distinction between British and English. It is nonsense.