Suella Braverman a disgrace to humanity

Well all these statistics seem to be used for is to argue all the so called crimes people of certain cultural backgrounds are more likely to commit, so I would say the data is not exactly contributing to a healthy cohesive society.

Anything that causes division should be banned and our history should be fortified to be more inclusive of communities that we have welcomed into our society. Being 'Anglo-Saxon' or whatever isn't relevant to our national story.

Well all these statistics seem to be used for is to argue all the so called crimes people of certain cultural backgrounds are more likely to commit, so I would say the data is not exactly contributing to a healthy cohesive society.

Anything that causes division should be banned and our history should be fortified to be more inclusive of communities that we have welcomed into our society. Being 'Anglo-Saxon' or whatever isn't relevant to our national story.

See my comment above. There is no English ethnicity, its not about denying us what we are, its about making all people here feel welcome without a genetix hierarchy of who is more English than who. If you care about diversity you would drop the issue, I mean what does it matter to YOU personally what YOUR ancestors were? You have never been oppressed for the colour of your skin or for who you are, your lineage is irrelevant to your life story.

Well all these statistics seem to be used for is to argue all the so called crimes people of certain cultural backgrounds are more likely to commit, so I would say the data is not exactly contributing to a healthy cohesive society.

Anything that causes division should be banned and our history should be fortified to be more inclusive of communities that we have welcomed into our society. Being 'Anglo-Saxon' or whatever isn't relevant to our national story.

Because when white people start talking about ethnicity and heritage other people around the world start getting unalived. We need to look past what we may have been before, it is irrelevant now. England is and always will be a postracial country, so get used to it and start celebrating diversity for all the wonderful things that it brings to each of our lives. We are so lucky, our 'ancestors' never got to enjoy those privileges.

Well all these statistics seem to be used for is to argue all the so called crimes people of certain cultural backgrounds are more likely to commit, so I would say the data is not exactly contributing to a healthy cohesive society.

Anything that causes division should be banned and our history should be fortified to be more inclusive of communities that we have welcomed into our society. Being 'Anglo-Saxon' or whatever isn't relevant to our national story.

I prefer not to listen, just turn it off....they will soon learn to stop the rage. People need to turn it off and stop getting angry.

The yanks are going back to public executions to fuel the rage.... don't watch it.... simple.

Are you suggesting we should get rid of all the questions about race and ethnicity that are collected?

It seems hyperbolic to call SB hateful.

There is genuine confusion over civic Englishness and English as a genetically identifiable ethnic group.

I am an immigrant to the UK myself. I feel like both Suella and Kemi are right. It depends upon the context.

Trying to hype it up is just wedge politics, stoking short term political advantage for long term disunity and disgruntlement.

Because when white people start talking about ethnicity and heritage other people around the world start getting unalived. We need to look past what we may have been before, it is irrelevant now. England is and always will be a postracial country, so get used to it and start celebrating diversity for all the wonderful things that it brings to each of our lives. We are so lucky, our 'ancestors' never got to enjoy those privileges.

Because when white people start talking about ethnicity and heritage other people around the world start getting unalived. We need to look past what we may have been before, it is irrelevant now. England is and always will be a postracial country, so get used to it and start celebrating diversity for all the wonderful things that it brings to each of our lives. We are so lucky, our 'ancestors' never got to enjoy those privileges.

It's called rage politics...Trump play book but it's no longer working. People need some rest from it.

Why does this matter to you so much? Why can't you let people self describe as they wish?

Did anyone watch her on bbc question time? She was spouting so much hatred. She is trying to rip apart this country. Divide and conquer. Honestly it’s really upsetting. I hate that our young people are watching this play out.

See my comment above. There is no English ethnicity, its not about denying us what we are, its about making all people here feel welcome without a genetix hierarchy of who is more English than who. If you care about diversity you would drop the issue, I mean what does it matter to YOU personally what YOUR ancestors were? You have never been oppressed for the colour of your skin or for who you are, your lineage is irrelevant to your life story.

I've already said that SB should be free to define her own ethnicity, just like everybody else. I've already said that I have no problem with people identifying their ethnicity as whatever they want, English included. I have not called anyone wanting to identify as English racist.

What fuels the hard right is pandering to them instead of calling them out. They love to play the victim and you are suggesting we should let them. No. These are people who want to deny actual human beings the right to live, work and be themselves. They will not stop until they have what they want. And we all know how appeasement has played out in the past.

You're not ethnically English, there is no English ethnicity. You are white European. English is a civic identity and anybody can be English. They are not the same.

You're not ethnically English, there is no English ethnicity. You are white European. English is a civic identity and anybody can be English. They are not the same.

@pointythings
It's completely reasonable to be concerned about far/hard right parties and the potential for policies of remigration & deportation. But can't you see the arguments put forward on this thread by some are utterly counter-productive to your aims?
Calling a British-Asian politician a deplorable human for discussing her identity, denying the existence of an English ethnicity, and calling anyone who thinks it exists a racist, and your liberal use of "flagshaggers", whilst complaining that you are in return denounced as a lefty, as if that's a denunciation at all.

IMO this all fuels hard right politics and adds evidence to their sense of a national identity under threat. The only way to help them more would be to start a thread proposing to make the word Christmas illegal.

Why is it the English are the only people not allowed to describe themselves by their ethnicity? English means descended from Anglo Saxons. It is those that deny this that are dividing the country, not those like Suella who are simply stating facts.

My DNA is a mixture of various English regions and 4% Northern Germany. Clearly I’m ethnically English. It’s not something I’d go around saying but it’s also not something that is not true.

@EasternStandard - she was a barrister, it is reasonable to assume she knows how to deflect, if she wanted to. She also went to Cambridge and is highly educated and will understand all the historical detail including the Oxford university study I linked.

She has two young children and is married to a Jewish man I think. She could easily have turned this to her advantage and talked about her identity and how her children will be free to identify just as they wish in years to come. She can still do this. If you think about it in that light, then Kemi’s comments on her own children make sense too.

And making critical comments about what a politicians says, and the impact on society more widely, is part of free speech and a fundamental democratic right. I am not sure who was supposedly abusive on this thread, although the title is click baity.

Ethno nationalism or even a hint of it via ambiguity in any shape or form, should have 0 place in British society today.

Yes and no. I haven't seen enough people linking what Tommo et al are doing to the toxic discourse about foreignness and Englishness. It's the connection that's missing and needs to be made explicit. Plenty of condemnation of the balaclava boys, but the links to Reform, Farage and the right wing media are not being talked about except in niche groups; and if those groups speak out, they're denounced as 'lefties'.