Suella Braverman a disgrace to humanity

Every ancestor from 300 years ago was born in Scotland? That's a lot of people.

So if a black person came to Scotland 300 years ago and married another black person and their children and grandchildren married black people in Scotland for the next 300 years, would all their descendants be ethnically Scottish by now?

I'm not sure why people are so het up.

Your ethnicity is your DNA
Your nationality is what's on your passport(s)
You can feel however you like

This is what I think. The trouble with English is we have the same word for both ideas.

In order to defend a civic (colour blind) conception of English nationality it’s not necessary to deny the coherence of English ethnicity. They are totally compatible views.

It is not just about tracing your family through records though. Plenty of people had affairs and passed kids off as their spouses, all throughout the ages.

Isn't it quite simple, your ethnicity can be different to your nationality? Facts aren't racist.

So would your ethnically Scottish person have purely those ancient ancestors or is it more likely that in the 21st Century they have a mixture of ethnicities from the British Isles and Northern Europe?

What is your definition of English ethnicity as opposed to British?

How far do you want to go back Savage? I can trace my family back nearly 300yrs in Scotland!

Look everyone unless your DNA test proves to the authorities you are at least 25% Celtic, sorry you ain’t English enough. Is that what people want? It is complete and utter nonsense all round.

How does that help you answer the question of what difference you see between British (plausible ethnicity) and English (not a plausible ethnicity)?

Only you can answer that becuase it’s a question about your opinion.

I’d say the more cohesive a grouping one can draw around stable ancestry, shared history and identity, the stronger the claim to be an ethnicity.

You seemed to be sceptical of English on ancestry grounds (too mixed). But adding Scots, Welsh and Irish into the grouping makes the ancestry more mixed, and is a much newer grouping historically and in terms of identity.

So we obviously have a quite different idea of what an ethnicity is, and that’s what I was curious about.

I really have to say that I can just feel that I must have some Huguenot blood. I haven’t checked, but it is just an extremely strong feeling I have. For all I know one of my ancestors must have had an affair and covered it up!

My bad, and there I was thinking there is an exact gene or chromosome that evidences that I am English!
What a pile of absolute tosh. There is no factual basis as even those who can trace our supposed ancestry back hundreds of years are mixed.

Our language is not German. 1066 added thousands of words as did Latin via the church etc. I could go on but it will fall on deaf ears which accompany closed minds.

To deny people their identity is a terrible thing to do. The English know who they are. My ancestors date back to before 1066. What I find quite confusing is why anyone would want to deny their own heritage and say they are something that they are not - are they ashamed of who they are? Why would you want to claim to be English when you have Indian ancestry? It is embarrassing tbh.

The Picts and Scots of course 🤣

The left are much worse. The Guardian for example is full of attacks on the character of the person expressing an opinion rather than the opinion itself. You can see it on plenty of threads on MN too where issues are being debated.

The title of this thread is a good example.

You tell me what the definition of ethnically English is?

If you’re born in England and have a passport (or at least eligible for one) then you’re a British citizen. British nationality/citizen and ethnically English/Scottish/Welsh are completely different. My mum was born in England but she isn’t English! Her parents are Asian so she could never be English. She’s a British citizen.

What is ethnically Scottish as opposed to ethnically English? What would your definition be?

People with a known heritage in the British Isles will generally have a mixture of ancestors from the Celtic Britons, Anglo Saxons, Vikings and Normans.

I really worry about the kind of language using this title

She’s a human being with an opinion. It’s different opinion to mine that’s no problem.

It’s not like she’s committed murder then you might call her a disgrace or whatever

I thought about reporting it. I don’t know. I understand strong language but something about this makes me uncomfortable.

It’s fairly unusual to see British as a plausible ethnicity but not English. What is it that makes the difference?

Perhaps as you're seemingly on the right, you see the left being more quicker to do so. It is just as bad in the reverse too which I assume you think is equally as bad?

If you are saying you are ethnically British then there is no such thing as ethnically Scot, Welsh, N Irish or English. And you say that the British are ethnically French (amoung others). So there is such a thing as ethnically French?

It's true there's no such thing as a pure English race. BUT, that doesn't mean we've always been mixed race and multicultural. That's just a lie.

Until very recently, the vast majority of English people were northern European. Racially and culturally we were a Germanic-Celtic mix. (Even the Normans were the descendants of Scandinavian Vikings.) And that was true from around 500AD to the 20th-century.

The left are now using mass immigration to destroy people's old identity and impose a new one on them (whether they want it or not). A government adviser to Blair, called Andrew Neather, said that the plan was to use immigration to "rub the right's nose in diversity and render their arguments out of date." No one asked for it and no one voted for it.

Yes I wholeheartedly agree. Absolutely vile and repulsive woman, and totally inept and incompetent as a politician.

A disgrace to humanity.

There's that whole 'be kind' we often see from the self appointed 'RSOH' people.

The whole reason that this is an issue now is what exactly?