Suella Braverman a disgrace to humanity

You’re not scrutinising why the question was aimed at Suella B though. I’d be annoyed if everyone targeted me on any show when everyone else gets to just not answer re their identity.

I think Suella and Kemi have every right to answer truthfully and to feel annoyed at why they as female politicians are put under an extra spotlight. I’d feel like saying fuck off too, but probably not say that.

"Disgrace to humanity" seems maybe a bit more than scrutiny though? I think this kind of overreaction to her words helps the hard right by making them seem like the reasonable ones in these debates.

It's perfectly reasonable to scrutinise her words and their political implications without denying her right to say them.

It's perfectly reasonable to scrutinise her words and their political implications without denying her right to say them.

She either says how she doesn’t feel to appease you and others or not. I prefer any female politician to just say how they identify.

Whether it’s Kemi or Suella, and their answers might be very different. Good. Let there be that difference.

No one should be so affronted by any woman just saying who they are.

And a lot of this is on the BBC for following this line for a rise from the public. Perhaps they could ask someone else not SB.

I think you're being either very generous in your interpretation of her motives, a little naive about the political context, or wilfully obtuse about the distinction I'm making. Nobody is questioning her right to define her own identity. I'm questioning the political purpose her words serve. Those are two entirely different things.

She can say how she feels.

I think the question and response should be scrutinised more.

Fiona Bruce specifically asked Suella B how she felt and followed it up with another question. Why target the Asian woman and why deny her the right to say exactly how she feels about her own identity. And then to push the racist line which SB correctly says I can’t be that towards myself.

The whole interaction exposes the BBC angle more than anything.

And then the outrage as per this thread with the op’s hyperbole. All because a female politician said truthfully how she feels about own identity.

Because she is overstepping and it’s about personal choice. As she is a politician she should keep her personal choice and feelings to herself!
If someone has British nationality that is all that matters. They can feel English or Scottish or Welsh or NI (or more than one of those) and if their grandparent was born in eg Jamaica, they can if they want to also feel ties there. It’s their choice, not for someone in power to tell them. Also with ethnicity questionnaires you can insert „prefer not to say“. That is people‘s choice.
Same with dual nationals, English law doesn’t recognise them to be lesser than those who only have the British passport.
The world is increasingly global and mixed. And dinosaurs from the last century obsessing about national identity and nation states and ethnicity and how many generations of it, it’s regressive. She needs to look forward as a politician not backward. It’s completely irrelevant if I can trace my roots back one generation or to Norman times. It’s all just time periods. And it’s about my personal identity it has nothing to do with the State!

I didn't say she couldn't define her own identity. Quite the opposite. I'm questioning why she's choosing to articulate it in this particular way, in the current political climate.

Again, she's not some random person off the street. She's an experienced politician, and I think it's reasonable to expect a more measured and considered contribution from someone who knows perfectly well how her words will be interpreted and used (from both sides of the political spectrum).

So the quote is just that she feels Asian not English and it’s necessary for her to say the opposite?

I disagree. Let women self define their identity either way.

She's not some random person off the street, is she? She's an experienced politician who knows exactly how her words will be interpreted.

And there's a pretty obvious irony in advocating an approach to immigration that might well have prevented her own parents from settling in the UK had it been in place when they arrived.

She's proving remarkably useful to Reform in pushing this rhetoric into the mainstream.

Does she? The quote look like it applied to how she feels.

I think it’s important she gets to say she feels Asian not English without rancour.

I wholeheartedly agree with you. There is no English ethnicity, we are a nation of immigrants and our language is German. We aren't even indigenous to these bloomin Islands for goodness sake!

As white English people become a minority in 40 years they are bound to start to identify themselves more as a group and to think more about ethnic identity.
It was never necessary before as it was taken for granted that England would be a Christian heritage Anglo Saxon country.
Other groups such as the Jewish community and the Muslim community collectively fight for their own ethnic identity, the issues that affect them are addressed as a collective and this is why it is becoming more of an issue now as identity is becoming more relevant.

I just find the outrage over this so very odd, and I really am no Suella fan. I am not ethnically English and would find it absurd and tbh dismissive of my real ethnic origins if anyone suggested I was ethnically English. As though my living in England erases the blood of my ancestors. I wasn’t even born in this country, though I’ve been here since a young child and do have citizenship. I’d describe myself as English if someone asked where I was from, yes. I feel culturally really quite English, especially compared to extended family back in my country of origin. But my DNA has no connection to the British isles whatsoever. I’m not sure why anyone would be bothered by this - it’s just factually correct.

People describe Britain as an island of immigrants or as JRM said a “mongrel” people, but that’s true of, I would argue, most countries across the world. The fact is that ethnically British people share similar DNA when analysed - including the very fact that this dna reflects various migrations to Britain.

The topic of DNA and its origins is important to me because my ethnicity is Romani. If you tested my DNA for ethnic origins, there is no “Romani” gene. However, my DNA would show origins from Asia and Europe that when looked at as a whole betrays me as a Romani gypsy. I would wholeheartedly object to the idea that my ethnicity doesn’t exist just because there is no specific “Romani” gene. I cannot see why it is different for ethnically English people - there are patterns of specific ancestral origins that could reveal you to be English if analysed.

I also find it a bit odd because if you say there is no English ethnicity, you are saying that ethnically English people have no ethnicity. But I, an English person of foreign ethnicity, most certainly do have an ethnicity which I’m proud of. Are you saying my ethnicity doesn’t exist either? Or are you just saying you are the default, neutral human and us ethnics are different flavours of exotic English?

I am English in attitude and nationality, England is my home. I’m proud and supremely grateful to be able to call myself English. I don’t feel my ethnicity makes me any less English in any meaningful way. I don’t feel remotely threatened by ethnically English people correctly acknowledging themselves as ethnically English.

Oh look. Here come the ethno-nationalists. AKA-racists.

Oh look. Here come the ethno-nationalists. AKA-racists.

She can but then she applies that to other people which again she's free to do but not free from being challenged on her ideas and motivation.

(I don't think that extends to her being a disgrace to humanity, but she certainly doesn't seem like a nice person or effective polician)

Every ancestor from 300 years ago was born in Scotland? That's a lot of people.

So if a black person came to Scotland 300 years ago and married another black person and their children and grandchildren married black people in Scotland for the next 300 years, would all their descendants be ethnically Scottish by now?

I didn’t watch it but looking it up she said how she felt about her identity. She says she’s a person of Asian origin not English.

Why can’t she feel as she does about that?