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Lower migration and the tax gap: raise taxes or ease restrictions?

260 replies

Mouldemort · 28/09/2026 12:50

James Cleverly introduced some serious restrictions on immigration, which Labour have upheld. Mahmood is going to introduce further restrictions. This has had the effect of reducing immigration substantially and forecast immigration (yes, even taking account the new method of counting.)

Immigrants, especially new immigrants, are disproportionate contributors to the UK's tax take, because they tend to be high earners and have no recourse to public funds. The low earners (who have mainly been blocked) are the bedrock of social care. The decrease in immigration has been more that the Chancellor planned for, so that leaves a substantial tax gap - at least £4bn and possibly £6.5bn annually.

Note this is from the Times, not a bastion of leftist thought.

So the question is, what do we do about this? Are you willing to pay higher taxes to pay for the shortfall? Should we lift restrictions on immigration to keep taxes lower?

Rejoining the single market or at least the customs union might help, but the same people who oppose higher taxes also oppose immigration and a closer connection the the EU

"Falling migration numbers could cost the chancellor as much as £7bn in fiscal headroom as he writes his first budget, The Times has been told. Government insiders believe that John Healey, who already faced an uphill battle to balance the books next month, is likely to have an even bigger challenge after immigration significantly undershot projections from the Office for Budget Responsibility (OBR). The Institute for Fiscal Studies think tank estimated last month that the success of Shabana Mahmood’s reforms, which have seen net migration cut to the low hundreds of thousands, could cost Healey some £4bn. Labour sources familiar with the budget process, however, said that the figure was now closer to £6.5bn. The OBR’s migration forecasts have been consistently higher than real numbers in recent years. Treasury officials, who have long expected Mahmood’s reforms to cause a hit to headroom, described the number as “pure speculation” but did not deny that Healey would have to contend with a larger funding gap than expected because of falling migration"

"At the same time, the OBR also observed that a ‘low migration’ scenario would – even after taking account of reduced pressures on public spending – push up borrowing by about £14 billion per year in 2028-29, considerably more than the cost of a 2p cut in National Insurance contributions, and raise the debt to GDP ratio – the government’s key fiscal target – by about 2.5%, or about £75 billion"

"In the short term, the biggest impact will be on social care, already struggling with workforce pressures and years of underfunding. Over the last two years, only a very large influx of migrant workers – 70,000 new starters in the last year – has saved the sector from an even deeper crisis. If the fall in visas issued is sustained, and there is not a large infusion of taxpayer funds, prospects are bleak."

https://www.thetimes.com/uk/politics/article/falling-migration-john-healey-headroom-zsw9rdcnr

https://ukandeu.ac.uk/immigration-is-falling-but-the-economic-cost-may-be-high/

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https://www.thetimes.com/uk/politics/article/falling-migration-john-healey-headroom-zsw9rdcnr

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5MinuteArgument · 03/10/2026 16:16

Badbadbunny · 03/10/2026 12:56

But what no one ever explains is WHY those nurses don't just go to US/Canada/Australia in the first place. Especially when UK trained medics are often said to relocate to those countries for better pay etc. Why don't the Phillippines nurses go there instead of the UK?

Yes, it's like a game of musical chairs. It doesn't make any sense. Unless of course they just love our weather.

nearlylovemyusername · 03/10/2026 16:30

Badbadbunny · 03/10/2026 12:56

But what no one ever explains is WHY those nurses don't just go to US/Canada/Australia in the first place. Especially when UK trained medics are often said to relocate to those countries for better pay etc. Why don't the Phillippines nurses go there instead of the UK?

[whisper] there is a chance some of them wouldn't pass US/Canada/Aus criteria? whilst our own medics do...

Oldham surgeon struck off after wrongly connecting patient's organs - BBC News

Or they wouldn't be able to get ILR and generous welfare after five years

Badbadbunny · 03/10/2026 16:31

nearlylovemyusername · 03/10/2026 16:30

[whisper] there is a chance some of them wouldn't pass US/Canada/Aus criteria? whilst our own medics do...

Oldham surgeon struck off after wrongly connecting patient's organs - BBC News

Or they wouldn't be able to get ILR and generous welfare after five years

Yes, I have wondered whether Canada/US/Australia have higher entry requirements/better scrutiny & checks etc than in the UK. There must be a reason.

5MinuteArgument · 03/10/2026 17:22

nearlylovemyusername · 03/10/2026 16:30

[whisper] there is a chance some of them wouldn't pass US/Canada/Aus criteria? whilst our own medics do...

Oldham surgeon struck off after wrongly connecting patient's organs - BBC News

Or they wouldn't be able to get ILR and generous welfare after five years

Ah well, I suppose a few wrongly connected organs leaving patients in 'unbearable pain' is just collateral damage for the great diversity we enjoy in our international NHS.

5MinuteArgument · 03/10/2026 17:24

Badbadbunny · 03/10/2026 16:31

Yes, I have wondered whether Canada/US/Australia have higher entry requirements/better scrutiny & checks etc than in the UK. There must be a reason.

Yes, this is most likely the reason. I hope we all feel suitably enriched.

5MinuteArgument · 03/10/2026 17:40

nearlylovemyusername · 03/10/2026 16:30

[whisper] there is a chance some of them wouldn't pass US/Canada/Aus criteria? whilst our own medics do...

Oldham surgeon struck off after wrongly connecting patient's organs - BBC News

Or they wouldn't be able to get ILR and generous welfare after five years

It's an absolute disgrace that we are recruiting medical practitioners from abroad with this level of incompetence.

The people who run the NHS should hang their heads in shame. To be honest, I'm very surprised the BBC reported this given their pro-migration agenda.

BIossomtoes · 03/10/2026 17:45

5MinuteArgument · 03/10/2026 17:40

It's an absolute disgrace that we are recruiting medical practitioners from abroad with this level of incompetence.

The people who run the NHS should hang their heads in shame. To be honest, I'm very surprised the BBC reported this given their pro-migration agenda.

Make sure you tell that to the German anaesthetist, the Chinese ITU nurse and the Indian surgeon responsible for extending my bloke’s life. Oh and the whole mixture of healthcare professionals of different nationalities who got him back on his feet. Some of us are grateful for their skills.

Hedgerowmanager · 03/10/2026 17:52

BIossomtoes · 03/10/2026 17:45

Make sure you tell that to the German anaesthetist, the Chinese ITU nurse and the Indian surgeon responsible for extending my bloke’s life. Oh and the whole mixture of healthcare professionals of different nationalities who got him back on his feet. Some of us are grateful for their skills.

While you are perfectly right to be happy with the care your bloke has received and while he’s lucky to have received the best treatment and to have you, of course, you are very unreasonable to dismiss and minimise other people’s concern about poor medical care.

I’m sure the family of the person left in horrible pain would have been just as grateful had their loved one received the same level of care.

BIossomtoes · 03/10/2026 18:07

Hedgerowmanager · 03/10/2026 17:52

While you are perfectly right to be happy with the care your bloke has received and while he’s lucky to have received the best treatment and to have you, of course, you are very unreasonable to dismiss and minimise other people’s concern about poor medical care.

I’m sure the family of the person left in horrible pain would have been just as grateful had their loved one received the same level of care.

I would absolutely be unreasonable if I’d done that. I speak as I find from first hand experience. Is that not allowed any more?

Hedgerowmanager · 03/10/2026 18:22

BIossomtoes · 03/10/2026 18:07

I would absolutely be unreasonable if I’d done that. I speak as I find from first hand experience. Is that not allowed any more?

Of course it is, just as valid as other people’s experiences.

Or don’t they matter?

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