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Lower migration and the tax gap: raise taxes or ease restrictions?

260 replies

Mouldemort · 28/09/2026 12:50

James Cleverly introduced some serious restrictions on immigration, which Labour have upheld. Mahmood is going to introduce further restrictions. This has had the effect of reducing immigration substantially and forecast immigration (yes, even taking account the new method of counting.)

Immigrants, especially new immigrants, are disproportionate contributors to the UK's tax take, because they tend to be high earners and have no recourse to public funds. The low earners (who have mainly been blocked) are the bedrock of social care. The decrease in immigration has been more that the Chancellor planned for, so that leaves a substantial tax gap - at least £4bn and possibly £6.5bn annually.

Note this is from the Times, not a bastion of leftist thought.

So the question is, what do we do about this? Are you willing to pay higher taxes to pay for the shortfall? Should we lift restrictions on immigration to keep taxes lower?

Rejoining the single market or at least the customs union might help, but the same people who oppose higher taxes also oppose immigration and a closer connection the the EU

"Falling migration numbers could cost the chancellor as much as £7bn in fiscal headroom as he writes his first budget, The Times has been told. Government insiders believe that John Healey, who already faced an uphill battle to balance the books next month, is likely to have an even bigger challenge after immigration significantly undershot projections from the Office for Budget Responsibility (OBR). The Institute for Fiscal Studies think tank estimated last month that the success of Shabana Mahmood’s reforms, which have seen net migration cut to the low hundreds of thousands, could cost Healey some £4bn. Labour sources familiar with the budget process, however, said that the figure was now closer to £6.5bn. The OBR’s migration forecasts have been consistently higher than real numbers in recent years. Treasury officials, who have long expected Mahmood’s reforms to cause a hit to headroom, described the number as “pure speculation” but did not deny that Healey would have to contend with a larger funding gap than expected because of falling migration"

"At the same time, the OBR also observed that a ‘low migration’ scenario would – even after taking account of reduced pressures on public spending – push up borrowing by about £14 billion per year in 2028-29, considerably more than the cost of a 2p cut in National Insurance contributions, and raise the debt to GDP ratio – the government’s key fiscal target – by about 2.5%, or about £75 billion"

"In the short term, the biggest impact will be on social care, already struggling with workforce pressures and years of underfunding. Over the last two years, only a very large influx of migrant workers – 70,000 new starters in the last year – has saved the sector from an even deeper crisis. If the fall in visas issued is sustained, and there is not a large infusion of taxpayer funds, prospects are bleak."

https://www.thetimes.com/uk/politics/article/falling-migration-john-healey-headroom-zsw9rdcnr

https://ukandeu.ac.uk/immigration-is-falling-but-the-economic-cost-may-be-high/

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https://www.thetimes.com/uk/politics/article/falling-migration-john-healey-headroom-zsw9rdcnr

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Hedgerowmanager · 03/10/2026 18:22

BIossomtoes · 03/10/2026 18:07

I would absolutely be unreasonable if I’d done that. I speak as I find from first hand experience. Is that not allowed any more?

Of course it is, just as valid as other people’s experiences.

Or don’t they matter?

BIossomtoes · 03/10/2026 18:07

Hedgerowmanager · 03/10/2026 17:52

While you are perfectly right to be happy with the care your bloke has received and while he’s lucky to have received the best treatment and to have you, of course, you are very unreasonable to dismiss and minimise other people’s concern about poor medical care.

I’m sure the family of the person left in horrible pain would have been just as grateful had their loved one received the same level of care.

I would absolutely be unreasonable if I’d done that. I speak as I find from first hand experience. Is that not allowed any more?

Hedgerowmanager · 03/10/2026 17:52

BIossomtoes · 03/10/2026 17:45

Make sure you tell that to the German anaesthetist, the Chinese ITU nurse and the Indian surgeon responsible for extending my bloke’s life. Oh and the whole mixture of healthcare professionals of different nationalities who got him back on his feet. Some of us are grateful for their skills.

While you are perfectly right to be happy with the care your bloke has received and while he’s lucky to have received the best treatment and to have you, of course, you are very unreasonable to dismiss and minimise other people’s concern about poor medical care.

I’m sure the family of the person left in horrible pain would have been just as grateful had their loved one received the same level of care.

BIossomtoes · 03/10/2026 17:45

5MinuteArgument · 03/10/2026 17:40

It's an absolute disgrace that we are recruiting medical practitioners from abroad with this level of incompetence.

The people who run the NHS should hang their heads in shame. To be honest, I'm very surprised the BBC reported this given their pro-migration agenda.

Make sure you tell that to the German anaesthetist, the Chinese ITU nurse and the Indian surgeon responsible for extending my bloke’s life. Oh and the whole mixture of healthcare professionals of different nationalities who got him back on his feet. Some of us are grateful for their skills.

5MinuteArgument · 03/10/2026 17:40

nearlylovemyusername · 03/10/2026 16:30

[whisper] there is a chance some of them wouldn't pass US/Canada/Aus criteria? whilst our own medics do...

Oldham surgeon struck off after wrongly connecting patient's organs - BBC News

Or they wouldn't be able to get ILR and generous welfare after five years

It's an absolute disgrace that we are recruiting medical practitioners from abroad with this level of incompetence.

The people who run the NHS should hang their heads in shame. To be honest, I'm very surprised the BBC reported this given their pro-migration agenda.

5MinuteArgument · 03/10/2026 17:24

Badbadbunny · 03/10/2026 16:31

Yes, I have wondered whether Canada/US/Australia have higher entry requirements/better scrutiny & checks etc than in the UK. There must be a reason.

Yes, this is most likely the reason. I hope we all feel suitably enriched.

5MinuteArgument · 03/10/2026 17:22

nearlylovemyusername · 03/10/2026 16:30

[whisper] there is a chance some of them wouldn't pass US/Canada/Aus criteria? whilst our own medics do...

Oldham surgeon struck off after wrongly connecting patient's organs - BBC News

Or they wouldn't be able to get ILR and generous welfare after five years

Ah well, I suppose a few wrongly connected organs leaving patients in 'unbearable pain' is just collateral damage for the great diversity we enjoy in our international NHS.

Badbadbunny · 03/10/2026 16:31

nearlylovemyusername · 03/10/2026 16:30

[whisper] there is a chance some of them wouldn't pass US/Canada/Aus criteria? whilst our own medics do...

Oldham surgeon struck off after wrongly connecting patient's organs - BBC News

Or they wouldn't be able to get ILR and generous welfare after five years

Yes, I have wondered whether Canada/US/Australia have higher entry requirements/better scrutiny & checks etc than in the UK. There must be a reason.

nearlylovemyusername · 03/10/2026 16:30

Badbadbunny · 03/10/2026 12:56

But what no one ever explains is WHY those nurses don't just go to US/Canada/Australia in the first place. Especially when UK trained medics are often said to relocate to those countries for better pay etc. Why don't the Phillippines nurses go there instead of the UK?

[whisper] there is a chance some of them wouldn't pass US/Canada/Aus criteria? whilst our own medics do...

Oldham surgeon struck off after wrongly connecting patient's organs - BBC News

Or they wouldn't be able to get ILR and generous welfare after five years

5MinuteArgument · 03/10/2026 16:16

Badbadbunny · 03/10/2026 12:56

But what no one ever explains is WHY those nurses don't just go to US/Canada/Australia in the first place. Especially when UK trained medics are often said to relocate to those countries for better pay etc. Why don't the Phillippines nurses go there instead of the UK?

Yes, it's like a game of musical chairs. It doesn't make any sense. Unless of course they just love our weather.

Badbadbunny · 03/10/2026 12:56

BIossomtoes · 02/10/2026 18:11

It’s a very good example because it’s a deliberate political and economic strategy. If we didn’t employ those nurses the US, Canada and Australia certainly would.

But what no one ever explains is WHY those nurses don't just go to US/Canada/Australia in the first place. Especially when UK trained medics are often said to relocate to those countries for better pay etc. Why don't the Phillippines nurses go there instead of the UK?

Pineneedlesincarpet · 03/10/2026 12:24

5MinuteArgument · 03/10/2026 10:13

Glad to hear the Labour government has had an outbreak of common sense.

Although some of the comments on here give an idea of the intransigence of the pro-immigration lobby. They seem to want our own young people to be replaced by overseas workers even if there is a cost to that, ie loads of young people out of work, a mental health crisis, increased housing costs, strain on our services, depletion of our natural resources and pressure on our environment.

It's very disjointed thinking. Which happens if you are constantly thinking everything is "racist". You can't see reality clearly.

5MinuteArgument · 03/10/2026 11:10

EasternStandard · 03/10/2026 11:05

Yes it’s pervasive.

Anyone with any common sense in the Labour Party will have to do battle with the left wing of the Labour Party who seem to see any suggestion that immigration should be curbed as a rallying call for rabid racist right-wingers.

And also they need to fight off all the vested interests, lawyers, big companies etc who have their fingers in the immigration gravy train.

EasternStandard · 03/10/2026 11:05

5MinuteArgument · 03/10/2026 10:13

Glad to hear the Labour government has had an outbreak of common sense.

Although some of the comments on here give an idea of the intransigence of the pro-immigration lobby. They seem to want our own young people to be replaced by overseas workers even if there is a cost to that, ie loads of young people out of work, a mental health crisis, increased housing costs, strain on our services, depletion of our natural resources and pressure on our environment.

Yes it’s pervasive.

5MinuteArgument · 03/10/2026 10:13

DogsDinner · 03/10/2026 00:55

Look up the 10 Year Health Plan.

In 2024, 50% of newly hired nurses and midwives came from overseas. This is not anecdote!

This year it is half that, and the aim is for it to drop to 10%. This is largely because the government has stopped financially incentivising recruitment from abroad, and has raised the standard of language requirements.

Anecdotally, it was also a seriously bad look for NHS trusts to be recruiting 50% of its nurses from abroad, while new British graduates couldn’t get a job.

Glad to hear the Labour government has had an outbreak of common sense.

Although some of the comments on here give an idea of the intransigence of the pro-immigration lobby. They seem to want our own young people to be replaced by overseas workers even if there is a cost to that, ie loads of young people out of work, a mental health crisis, increased housing costs, strain on our services, depletion of our natural resources and pressure on our environment.

5MinuteArgument · 03/10/2026 09:59

DogsDinner · 02/10/2026 21:02

@Blossomtoes

It’s laughable because British trained junior doctors, 7 years into their training, I believe, were having to compete for their next placement against half the world, before the rules changed this August.

Because foreign doctors were so desperate to come to the UK, they would apply even if it was a downgrade for them. So British students were at an immediate disadvantage.

They had no choice but to go abroad if they wanted to continue their training.

Yes, exactly, that's why Labour have changed the rules, they have that much sense at least.

BIossomtoes · 03/10/2026 07:53

DogsDinner · 03/10/2026 00:20

I have just given you the name of the legislation that was brought in this year to stop this from happening! Look it up! It specifically stops NHS block recruiting nurses from abroad to fill entire wards. NHS can still recruit nurses individually from abroad.

I have dutifully looked it up. It doesn’t include nurses nor does it provide evidence of block recruitment of overseas staff. Try again.

DogsDinner · 03/10/2026 00:55

Look up the 10 Year Health Plan.

In 2024, 50% of newly hired nurses and midwives came from overseas. This is not anecdote!

This year it is half that, and the aim is for it to drop to 10%. This is largely because the government has stopped financially incentivising recruitment from abroad, and has raised the standard of language requirements.

Anecdotally, it was also a seriously bad look for NHS trusts to be recruiting 50% of its nurses from abroad, while new British graduates couldn’t get a job.

DogsDinner · 03/10/2026 00:20

I have just given you the name of the legislation that was brought in this year to stop this from happening! Look it up! It specifically stops NHS block recruiting nurses from abroad to fill entire wards. NHS can still recruit nurses individually from abroad.

BIossomtoes · 02/10/2026 22:58

DogsDinner · 02/10/2026 22:12

@BIossomtoes

Straight from the horses mouth, the people who actually work in these hospitals. The government has just made legal changes this year, 2026, to prevent it.

That’s anecdote. You clearly have no evidence.

DogsDinner · 02/10/2026 22:32

A lot of these nurses were recruited en mass from Nigeria. So the NHS was deliberately recruiting huge numbers of nurses from a country that already had a desperate shortage of nurses.

DogsDinner · 02/10/2026 22:28

The Medical Training Prioritisation Act 2026 bans hospital departments from block recruiting nurses from overseas.

Some sensible legislation at last, after many strikes from junior doctors.

It won’t improve matters for newly qualified nurses immediately though, because hospitals just shut down level 5 recruiting when money is tight. They still have to bring in all the block booked nurses.

EasternStandard · 02/10/2026 22:22

DogsDinner · 02/10/2026 21:02

@Blossomtoes

It’s laughable because British trained junior doctors, 7 years into their training, I believe, were having to compete for their next placement against half the world, before the rules changed this August.

Because foreign doctors were so desperate to come to the UK, they would apply even if it was a downgrade for them. So British students were at an immediate disadvantage.

They had no choice but to go abroad if they wanted to continue their training.

Madness

AgeingMillennial · 02/10/2026 22:20

5MinuteArgument · 02/10/2026 20:22

I agree, it's just crazy. An absolute scam. We need to train our own resident workforce and recruit them for the work that needs doing.

The idea that the NHS recruits so heavily from abroad because it wants to recruit 'the best' is just laughable.

It’s insanity because we are constantly told we need immigration for the NHS and economy, yet despite many millions of immigrants apparently both are in worse shape than ever. It’s clearly not working for whatever reason.

AgeingMillennial · 02/10/2026 22:19

MrsBennetsPoorNervesAreBack · 28/09/2026 14:42

Your response seems to be saying that you think the benefits of lower immigration are worth any cost. You are entitled to hold that opinion. However, you have not responded directly to the OP's question about what you think we should do about the lost revenue.

Would you support raising taxes to cover the shortfall? More borrowing? Or something else?

There’s immigration and immigration.

Highly skilled immigration from Europe, Japan, China, India and parts of Africa? All for it. More immigration from Albania, Somalia, Afghanistan? No, I am not for it.

Let’s close off routes from high risk countries, be honest with ourselves about specific demographics and whether they are an asset to Britain, and improve immigration routes from countries where the immigrants are skilled and desirable.

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