Andy's first U turn

So you were really hopeful he’d do a good job but less than a month in you are ‘desperately disappointed’ - I suggest you might be being slightly disingenuous, in fact I don’t think I can trust a word you say after a U turn like that.

‘Fucking up”? Did you want them released? Your issue is he was given one lot of information and then changed the policy, your argument is he should have done nothing? Or his crime is saying something he was able to rectify in 24 hours.
Hey if you think that is fucking up just wait till I tell you about David Cameron and Brexit!

You just can't help the whataboutery can you?

No the Fuck up was he carried out a review of who was going to released and created a group of excluded prisioners. As a result of that he thought these murderers were fine to release. The public have told him to fuck right off with that. So he has done another review and now concluded that they shouldn't.

In realty we all know that he didn't really look at the first list as he was on a beach sunning himself.

It seems the Probation Unions are turning against him so I'm sure there will be more changes soon.

🙄

Oh look - the AB Fan club has turned up!

Grow up.

Yes that what’s happens in a political debate. One person says one thing and then someone else who disagrees with them puts over a different point of view.
Anything else you need explaining about democracy and free speech?

Do you think the review was a good idea?
He was initially told these men had to be released for legal/technical reasons and then reviewed it again?
There was a public outcry - which he listened to to.

The comment about him being on a beach is nonsense. Do you really think politicians shouldn’t go on holiday - that is a really bad idea for reasons to obvious to go into. It’s a sloppy ill thought out gotcha insult. Do better.

So Andy speaks, Whitehall says “Um excuse me PM….” Andy says “but I am PM, find a way”. Whitehall says “Looking into it”. Whitehall comes back and says “Well we could actually do a bit of this and a bit of that”. PM addresses the public and says “There I have done it”. Good PM?

Or

Andy blurts something out, Whitehall says “Um, excuse me PM….” PM quietly retreats and pretends the original promise never happened. Bad PM?

The question is what kind of U turn it was. In this case I think it was Burnham coming up against bureaucratic constraints and pushing back and getting a better outcome.

Watching closely!

What I’m asking is - did you want them released? If the change in policy has made what you want happen why is that a bad thing?
It seems you would rather the ‘bad thing’ happen than change course.
AB was wrong if they were released “awful policy” and he is wrong if he stops them being released “u turn”.
It’s almost like you are not arguing in good faith and just want a stick to beat him with, but I’m sure that isn’t true.

I tend to agree with your second analysis.

He hasn’t destroyed my faith. I appreciate his honesty in trying to navigate an incredibly complex situation. I don’t think he’s U turned either.

My faith in Labour is very shakeable. There was much I didn’t approve of during Starmer’s term and I was very vocal about it. Glasses and suits donations, the winter fuel debacle, the Mandelson appointment just off the top of my head. I’m definitely not going to criticise a new PM doing his level best to navigate a complex situation.

I am not a labour supporter, but I am willing to give him a chance - hence “watching closely”.

It is such early days but thankfully we have moved away from Starmer, who adhered to Whitehall bureaucracy and managerialism.

Burnham had to push back because he hadn’t learned to ‘hold his tongue’ but he will be judged on what he did next, push Whitehall for change. He now has to deliver.

If you can’t see why your political hypocrisy is a problem then I don’t think any political thread is for you.

Politics is the art of the possible, it’s about making things work. Sometimes, that can be a bit messy and sometimes you can’t get things to work out how you want. If you add on top of that ridiculous constraints, like never changing your mind, never fudging the edges to get good policies through you may as well have a dictatorship.

The point: is AB doing what is in the public interest? Is what he is doing legally possible?

He may have initially been told it couldn’t be done and then pushed for a different response from a different civil servant. legal opinions differ - you must know that. On new advice he changed his stance - this is a very reasonable thing to do. You are howling about a U turn when he is now probably doing something you actually want!

Its madness.

He can't even ban disposable barbq.

But AB is having to correct previous Tory gvts' mistakes, not his own

He has been thinking aloud, which some people see as a weakness. People who worked with him in Manchester said "He won't take 'No' for an answer". This seems to be an example of that mindset.

AB seems a bit exposed on this. Why aren't the Justice Minister or Prisons Minister making any statements to back AB up? Why aren't they (whoever they are) taking the lead on this?

Backtrack Burnham. He's already showing he's out of his depth. He's going to get a real taste of what it's like being pressurised from all quarters while juggling hot potatoes.

14 years of Tories
Brexit
Ring wing media

Everytime Labour PMs are put under scrutiny, these are wheeled out. You don't think out loud as PM, when you've got millions of citizens' welfare at stake. He's not thinking how to build his next bus station.