Andy's first U turn

Imdunfer · 2026-08-11T17:20:53+00:00

He's going to have to learn to hold his tongue until things have been properly investigated. I promise they will not be released. There is no way we can find that will stop them being released. They will have to be realised, there's nothing I can do. There is no space for more prisoners. We've found a way to stop them being released. We've found spaces not to release others as well. Plus ça change.........

DenizenOfAisleOfShame · 15/08/2026 08:46

BIossomtoes · 14/08/2026 17:10

The reason Major “got stuffed” was because the Tories been in power for 18 years and the country was ripe for change.

True, but Major was widely ridiculed for being the ‘gray man’, tucking his shirt into his Y-fronts (made up by Alistair Campbell, but it stuck) and promoting trivial and silly policies.

(Which was fair enough with ‘back to basics’.)

Original poster

Imdunfer · 15/08/2026 08:39

BIossomtoes · 14/08/2026 08:18

Yes, just as I predicted. I still don’t think we should value one life more highly than another.

That's not what we are doing. We aren't valuing a policeman's life higher than a ditch digger's life.

We are punishing the murderer of an on duty policeman more severely than the murderer of a ditch digger because the murderer of the on duty policeman knows that they are attacking the very fabric of civilised society.

Their lives are of equal value, the impact of their death on society as whole is not.

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BIossomtoes · 14/08/2026 17:10

The reason Major “got stuffed” was because the Tories been in power for 18 years and the country was ripe for change.

DenizenOfAisleOfShame · 14/08/2026 17:03

BIossomtoes · 14/08/2026 16:57

Major did most of the heavy lifting on the NI peace agreement. He was far from trivial.

Ooh, that’s twice we can agree today. Major’s achievements in respect of NI are overlooked, so thank you for reminding me.

I really meant that he was considered trivial in his policy programme more generally. And, poor man, he got stuffed in 1997 because of that.

The biggest thing he got right was allowing Ken Clarke to run the treasury without interference. Which was why Blair inherited a golden economy.

BIossomtoes · 14/08/2026 16:57

Major did most of the heavy lifting on the NI peace agreement. He was far from trivial.

DenizenOfAisleOfShame · 14/08/2026 16:35

MsGreying · 14/08/2026 16:29

He's "shifted his position" on lots of things.

Which makes him untrustworthy and unreliable.

he's still a million times better than Sir Starmer, but is going to have to stop courting social media attention and he's starting to look at bad as the Lib Dem guy.

He is shaping up to be a trivial PM. In the way that Major was with his cones hotline. Although I don’t believe he’s nearly as decent as Major.

We’ll see. Perhaps he can rally us all with his pork scratchings reviews and some consumer protection law.

It does feel quite ‘70s at the moment, Shirley Williams and all that.

MsGreying · 14/08/2026 16:29

He's "shifted his position" on lots of things.

Which makes him untrustworthy and unreliable.

he's still a million times better than Sir Starmer, but is going to have to stop courting social media attention and he's starting to look at bad as the Lib Dem guy.

BIossomtoes · 14/08/2026 15:44

concertinacornflake · 14/08/2026 15:36

Undoubtedly health is not as high ranking.
But Cooper's move was not about demoting her personally. That's presumably why she was happy enough to take the new portfolio.

She’s a much better fit with health than she was in the foreign office. It’s aligned with her political interests and experience. Her first government job was at health.

DenizenOfAisleOfShame · 14/08/2026 15:39

hedgeknight · 14/08/2026 15:33

About yourself it seems.

Maybe health isn't high on your agenda but for many it is.

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OFGS. Saying that health and social care is a ministerial demotion from Foreign Secretary is hardly a comment about the importance of health.

Funnily enough, I think food, sewerage and the electricity supply are pretty important too. But I’m not judging the ministers for Defra or DESNZ as significant as Foreign Secretary.

concertinacornflake · 14/08/2026 15:36

Undoubtedly health is not as high ranking.
But Cooper's move was not about demoting her personally. That's presumably why she was happy enough to take the new portfolio.

hedgeknight · 14/08/2026 15:33

DenizenOfAisleOfShame · 14/08/2026 15:31

Sometimes you really do have to just tell the unvarnished truth.

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About yourself it seems.

Maybe health isn't high on your agenda but for many it is.

DenizenOfAisleOfShame · 14/08/2026 15:31

hedgeknight · 14/08/2026 15:30

Charming

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Sometimes you really do have to just tell the unvarnished truth.

hedgeknight · 14/08/2026 15:30

DenizenOfAisleOfShame · 14/08/2026 15:24

Utter bollocks.

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Charming

DenizenOfAisleOfShame · 14/08/2026 15:30

BIossomtoes · 14/08/2026 15:26

🙄

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😂

BIossomtoes · 14/08/2026 15:26

DenizenOfAisleOfShame · 14/08/2026 15:24

Utter bollocks.

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🙄

DenizenOfAisleOfShame · 14/08/2026 15:24

Greenleavesandsunshine · 14/08/2026 15:21

There are 4 great offices of state, PM, Home Secretary, Chancellor, Foreign Secretary. Health is not one of those, it is however the next one down after that. It’s not one of the top four, it’s arguably number 5. The fifth most important job in government and in a Labour government could be argued it is more important than foreign secretary.
That is not a humiliating demotion, more a move sideways. The hyperbolic attempt to cast anything happening in government as a CATASTROPHE or a U TURN or INCOMPETENCE is Trumpian in nature in the U.K. we don’t need to do that.

Utter bollocks.

Greenleavesandsunshine · 14/08/2026 15:21

There are 4 great offices of state, PM, Home Secretary, Chancellor, Foreign Secretary. Health is not one of those, it is however the next one down after that. It’s not one of the top four, it’s arguably number 5. The fifth most important job in government and in a Labour government could be argued it is more important than foreign secretary.
That is not a humiliating demotion, more a move sideways. The hyperbolic attempt to cast anything happening in government as a CATASTROPHE or a U TURN or INCOMPETENCE is Trumpian in nature in the U.K. we don’t need to do that.

Original poster

Imdunfer · 14/08/2026 14:56

BIossomtoes · 14/08/2026 14:06

It’s a question of perception. You two think it’s a demotion. I don’t, given its importance to electoral success and Burnham’s personal passion for it. We could argue all day to no point. Perhaps, having already held two out of the four great offices of state Cooper felt she had nothing to prove.

I agree with you.

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DenizenOfAisleOfShame · 14/08/2026 14:26

BIossomtoes · 14/08/2026 14:06

It’s a question of perception. You two think it’s a demotion. I don’t, given its importance to electoral success and Burnham’s personal passion for it. We could argue all day to no point. Perhaps, having already held two out of the four great offices of state Cooper felt she had nothing to prove.

Now that I can agree with. I don’t think she does have anything to prove.

I suspect it’s a last hurrah for Cooper under Burnham to - genuinely - help him early on and get some experience for herself for a post-politics job. Which I have no problem with.

It’s still patently a demotion though.

BIossomtoes · 14/08/2026 14:06

It’s a question of perception. You two think it’s a demotion. I don’t, given its importance to electoral success and Burnham’s personal passion for it. We could argue all day to no point. Perhaps, having already held two out of the four great offices of state Cooper felt she had nothing to prove.

Nuthatch26 · 14/08/2026 14:01

Health is not described as one of the 'great offices of state'. It's definitely a demotion. Cooper's third position in just two years.

DenizenOfAisleOfShame · 14/08/2026 13:54

BIossomtoes · 14/08/2026 13:29

It depends whether you see being put in charge of the highest spending (by several multiples) government department whose success is crucial to electoral success as demotion. It’s clear from interviews with Cooper that she doesn’t.

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Yes, I absolute do think that’s a demotion. Budgets are nothing to do with it.

It’s clear from interviews with Cooper that she doesn’t.

Quelle surprise!

BIossomtoes · 14/08/2026 13:29

DenizenOfAisleOfShame · 14/08/2026 12:22

I doubt Cooper would thank you for your new found faux concern.

That’s such a silly thing to say. I don’t want Cooper’s thanks and I doubt she’d want to thank anyone on here, whether a Labour voter or a non-Labour voter. She’s a grown up politician, not a teenage influencer.

My point was and is that Cooper is IMO the only established big hitter in the cabinet but that she’s been demoted. Which she has been, evidently.

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It depends whether you see being put in charge of the highest spending (by several multiples) government department whose success is crucial to electoral success as demotion. It’s clear from interviews with Cooper that she doesn’t.

DenizenOfAisleOfShame · 14/08/2026 12:22

BIossomtoes · 14/08/2026 09:09

If it’s such a humiliating demotion as you seem to think it is is, surely you should be admiring Cooper’s character in putting personal interests to one side and serving the country in whatever role the PM chose. No whining, no tantrums, no flouncing, straight to a hospital in Reading. I doubt Cooper would thank you for your new found faux concern.

I think health and social care is one of the most important areas of government, a view shared by the majority of UK voters. It’s one of Burnham’s main focus areas and his passion so he clearly thinks it’s very important too.

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I doubt Cooper would thank you for your new found faux concern.

That’s such a silly thing to say. I don’t want Cooper’s thanks and I doubt she’d want to thank anyone on here, whether a Labour voter or a non-Labour voter. She’s a grown up politician, not a teenage influencer.

My point was and is that Cooper is IMO the only established big hitter in the cabinet but that she’s been demoted. Which she has been, evidently.

Original poster

Imdunfer · 14/08/2026 09:47

BIossomtoes · 14/08/2026 09:25

I disagree. The last Labour government improved healthcare beyond all recognition and left it with a patient satisfaction rating in the high 70s. Cooper was part of that government. Obviously the economy is in a very different place but a lot can be achieved by reprioritision and spending the budget differently. If she manages to turn it round by the next election she’ll be one of the most successful ministers in the cabinet.

The last labour government ended in 2010.

Since then the country has got hugely fatter, lives longer in poor health, the expectation that daughters and a few sons will look after their own mothers in old age has continued to decrease, the official population has increased by 13% the PFI buildings are getting older and the true cost of those contracts is coming home to roost, the resident doctors have secured a 35% pay rise and nurses and consultants are now balloting on strike action and who can blame them.

She has a very steep hill to climb. Nobody would be more pleased than me if she manages to climb it.

I thought Streeting had a fair chance and was doing really well, but since his successor caved immediately to the unreasonable new pay demand, she has a much harder task ahead of her.

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