Why are ukip so bad?

It's inexplicable to me how you can vote for a party without looking at its policies and see whether you agree with them. A party which doesn't want to even discuss policies and how it plans to achieve them and disowns any previously stated policy as soon as it comes under scrutiny just doesn't make sense.

If people are sick of parties going back on their word, UKIP should be the least attractive of them all. And why you'd vote someone to become MEP for a handsome salary when they don't even intend to do the job they're being paid for, doesn't make sense.

If you don't want to look at their policies, look at their voting record.

You only have to watch Channel 4 News, where even if all their highly paid spinners try to do UKIP down, it doesn't work.

They show pictures of Farage walking around constituencies and young people rush to take selfies with him or old ladies shake his hand and asking him with concern and respect for his bon-viveur spirit if "he has had a drink yet" at 9 am in the morning.

Farage is a star and people want to shake his hand because they see him as "one of us" and not "one of them", "one of the chums" or "one of the luvvies".

Farage and UKIP are popular because unlike Labour, people think they are "on our side".

Miliband understands what this is really all about. This is about who is on the side of the people.

Miliband wants to convince us that Labour is, but it won't work, because we all know they aren't. And the chums aren't either. So the people have nowhere else to go but UKIP. They don't care about their "policies", they only care that they are different to the Labour luvvies and Conservative chums. And the reason for that is that the people have had enough - enough of spin, lies, expense scandals, and health scandals and absolutely everything. The people want change. They don't believe the spinners can deliver it, they think all they will do is carry on spinning.

This is not about one issue, This is about everything and that is why the spinners don't know how to counter it. They have spun and lied for years, and the people suffered it silently but have now had enough, and now the spinners can't rein the public back in anymore.

"I think it's worrying that a lot of people will vote UKIP on the back of immigration scaremongering"

If you think this is about immigration, then you do not understand what is really happening.

This is the public in unison rejecting spin. This is a vote against the spinners, the rippers off, the nanny state ninnies who look down on ordinary people and believe that they can lie through their teeth and still get the public to vote them in, applaud them and believe them.

If the great and the good, the wise and the wonderful, the best and teh brightest such as the great Labour leader Gordon Bennett, say things like "we have only 50 days left to save the planet", then obviously some of the public will believe it, because they actually trust the great leader and admire his honesty, integrity and sagacity. But the majority don't believe it anymore.

Alll of the establishment's spin is failing, everything they are throwing at the public is sinking. That is why UKIP is rising. UKIP represents the opposite of spin and that is why Cleggy and all the rest don't know how to stop UKIP.

It's like watching the Comic Strip Five Go Mad in Dorset

blah blah chums blah blah spin blah blah luvvies blah blah atom bomb

If the policies listed above are not the actual policies, then what are their policies? Or are we not allowed to view them in case people are put off when they see what they are?

I think it's worrying that a lot of people will vote UKIP on the back of immigration scaremongering without actually realising what they are voting for in entirety

Claig! Are you saying that people don't believe in global warming? They do! Tons of them, practically everyone I know does including dh. I thought that people were sensible until recently, but it turns out that quite a lot of dh's friends/colleagues read the DM and believe every bloody word

'claig - so spin doesn't work?'

Absolutely not. Look what happened to New Labour. they ruined their whole reputation because they allowed Oxbridge "intellectuals" to spin out of control and wreck the credibility of a proud and honourable political party.

The reason that Farage is so popular is because he is the antithesis of spin. He is everything the frauds are not. As Peter Oborne rightly said

"In an era that has been stripped of familiar signposts, he might have walked straight off the set of an Ealing comedy. Dickens would have loved him. There has been no Axelrod figure lurking behind Mr Farage, trying to make him say the right things or wear the right clothes. He has advanced to his position of unprecedented public influence on his own terms. Voters sense this and respect it."

I am not saying that the Daily Mail doesn't spin. Of course it does. It is desperately trying to help the Conservative chums by smearing UKIP. But the people aren't so stupid. Just read the Daily Mail comments section, where poster after poster laughs at the Daily Mail's attempts to save the chums.

You are not taken in by the Daily Mail and nor are loyal Daily Mail readers. I read the Daily Mail, not because I am stupid enough to believe it all, but only because it is the best we have currently got.

great question evading here, claig.

If scaremongering worked, then the people would all embrace wind turbines, and like the "Conservative" Cameron would install "rooftop wind turbines" on their houses. But they don't, because they don't believe it, and all the interviews and photo-ops with Cameron and all his snaps with huskies can't convince them. That is what has riled the spinners - the public are no longer falling for their spin, they are losing their grip and are no longer sure to win.

This is the elitist attitude of the spinners. Gordon Brown referred to a good lifelong Labour supporter, Mrs Duffy, as a "bigoted woman".

Do you have any idea how ridiculous you sound calling anti-fascists elitists?

claig - so spin doesn't work? What do you have to say about the lies of omission I reference then? Are these lies not spin designed to whip up hate?

That you and others don't believe in man-made global warming shows more that you prefer to believe in a particular spin, rather than your claimed ability to see through this.

UKIP are in a habit of hiding and obscuring their policies when put under the spotlight, which is precisely why we need to keep shining the spotlight on them.

Here is an example from UKIPs 'small and medium business spokesman':

stilllaughingattheukip.files.wordpress.com/2014/05/5qtxqe1.png

Have a look at the kinds of policies UKIP really support, and the kinds of policies UKIP want the public to know that they support.

"Claig, everything you say is ignorant."

This is the elitist attitude of the spinners. Gordon Brown referred to a good lifelong Labour supporter, Mrs Duffy, as a "bigoted woman".

the public have got wise to what some of this elite think of us. They heard how some Tory allegedly described hardworking Tory constituency workers and members as "swivel-eyed loons". The public are patient, but they are not stupid. They won't put up with being spun, ripped off and insulted forever. In the end, they will vote for people who represent them, not people who despise them.

"It's not about being "in tune" with the public but about influencing the public by scapegoating and othering groups of people."

Don't have such a low opinion and lack of respect for the public. That is what the spinners do. If "scaremongering" influenced the people, then the people would all believe in the spinners' tale of "global warming" and an impending "climate catastrophe". But they don't, because spin no longer works and the spinners don't like it.

Where did you find these "policies"?
Are they the ones that Farage referred to as "drivel", penned by an "idiot" who was a Conservative and is now back in the Conservative Party where he fits in well.

The Daily Mail deliberately lie by omission in order to whip up xenophobia [[http://www.mumsnet.com/Talk/am_i_being_unreasonable/2082119-Dear-Daily-Mail-its-a-bit-more-complicated-than-that?]] and unfortunately they're good at it.

It's not about being "in tune" with the public but about influencing the public by scapegoating and othering groups of people.

Claig, everything you say is ignorant.

UKIP Policies:

Furthermore, following that link, here are the UKIP policies which are 'in support of the little guy':

i0.wp.com/www.scriptonitedaily.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/05/A005-Copy2.jpg?zoom=1.5&resize=620%2C381

==========================

Proposed UKIP policies include:

• Scrapping Paid maternity leave

• Raising income tax for the poorest 88% of Britons

• Scrapping holiday entitlement

• Speeding up privitastion of the NHS

• Cancelling all planned house building

• Abandoning all action on climate change

• Cancelling regulations to make banks safer

• Abolishing laws to protect your human rights

• Making it legal for a man to rape or assault his wife

• Cutting education spending and buying 3 aircraft carriers instead.

============================

I don't suppirt fascists and the Daily Mail, UKIP and the Tories are not fascists.

The Tories can be accused of being many things - "idiots" as Farage has referred to some of their members - but not of fascism.

UKIP is now Britain''s most popular political party and Farage is Britain's most popular politician and the Daily Mail in its online form is the world's most popular paper.

The reason is that they are both populist. The establishment and teh Socialist Workers Party don't like it, because they are elitist rather than populist.

We are very lucky to live in a country which has elections. That way the people can topple the elitists and elect populists who are in tune with the public. I'm sorry that the people don't support you, ttosca, and the Socialist Workers Party or Left Foot Backward, but that is called democracy, where the people rather than the elites decide who governs the country. No matter what the elite's media class throw at the people, the public will still elect politicians who listen to the people.

UKIP aren't a Libertarian party.

Libertarians don't persecute people based on colour, ethnicity, gender, or sexual orientation.

Libertarians do believe that every person should be treated equally under the law. This includes gay people getting married. This includes practising any religion and includes building places of worship (Mosques) anywhere they like

Libertarians don't believe in borders.

Libertarians do believe that people should have free movement across borders, to live and work as they please.

Libertarians don't prosecute people for political speech on the internet, as UKIP has brought in lawyers and the police to bully and censor speech against them:

www.scriptonitedaily.com/2014/05/13/ukip-brings-in-police-and-lawyers-to-censor-bloggers-its-on-farage-its-on/

Libertarians do believe in free speech, especially political free speech.

Isn't Cameron thinking about repealing the human rights act and bringing in a bill of rights? That's all they need to do, they won't 'unsign' the ECHR, so we'll just be back to where we were pre 2000.
I assume if ukip gain power they would have to hold a referendum about leaving the eu, or is he going to going to just withdraw? Because even if they do win there will likely be more people that didn't vote for them than did (fptp) so it's not a given that we'll withdraw from the eu. And anyway looks like there will be a referendum if the tories get back in.

Claig are you on glue? I'm sure you were all pro-Tory last time you were copying and pasting everywhere.

Claig has always been confused and incoherent. S/he supports the 'Great Bob Crow' and fawned over the death of Tony Benn, then he repeatedly spouts right-wing fantasies about the greatness of the fascist parties like UKIP (and before that, the Tories) and fascist-supporting newspapers like the Daily Mail.

The problem is that s/he is a right-wing populist, and is easy pray to populist rhetoric, no matter how dangerous.

Wee point of info that folk seem confused about- the European Treaty of Human Rights predates the EU. We'd still be signed up to it even if we left. Also the Human Rights Act is a legal bill written and passed at Westminster. It's a totally separate issue from EU membership.