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Conflict in the Middle East

To feel sorry for Ed Sheeran.....

1000 replies

mids2019 · 16/09/2026 16:19

So Ed Sheeran's tour is in tatters simply because he believes music for entertainment and personally he likes to keep politics out of it (as many many stars do).

Simply because his support wanted to highlight the oppressed people of Iran and the use of capital punishment to stifle dissent support wanted to bring up Gaza without any reference to the start of the war due to a massacre on October 7th and Ed didn't want that he is suddenly the bad guy? Perhaps Ed succumbed to sing of thinking of Jews in the audience and the connotations of 'Free Paelstine' he is now on the naughty step of virtue signallers.

So all those Sheeran fans could lose out seeing someone they have waited months to see because some humpty has to jump on the Gaza bandwagon with a few trite soundbites as part of his act (because hey the ME isn't complicated) to look a bit radical or whatever. Bloody disgrace.

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Squeezingwildoranges · 20/09/2026 09:14

SharonEllis · 20/09/2026 09:06

This is misinformation of the higgest order. Israel is not even 100 years old as a modern state, I don't even know how you can apply the concept of medieval to it. That would take us down a rabbit hole, suffice to say its ridiculous. Israel is not, by any definition a theocracy. Theocracy has a simple definition 'a form of government where a country is ruled by religious leaders who claim divine authority, and the state's laws are based on religious texts' which does not apply to Israel. Israel is a modern secular democratic state. Halachic law applies in personal/family matters with parallel jurisdictions for other religions. Israel is much more secular than I suspect many mumsnetters realise.

Saudi is not strictly a theocracy because power is held by the royal family not clerics, so its an absolute monarchy though the law, constitution etc are heavily based on sharia.

Iran is a theocracy.

The comparison between the Ukraine/Russia war and Yemen is also complete nonsense but Im assuming people know that.

Edited

I suppose my comparison is wrong then. Israel is not a medieval theocracy. If anything it is a bronze age theocracy. Of course if the definition of theocracy is disputed in this instance, there is no doubt it is officially an ethnosupremacist state.

SharonEllis · 20/09/2026 09:15

Squeezingwildoranges · 20/09/2026 09:14

I suppose my comparison is wrong then. Israel is not a medieval theocracy. If anything it is a bronze age theocracy. Of course if the definition of theocracy is disputed in this instance, there is no doubt it is officially an ethnosupremacist state.

No the definition of theocracy is not disputed. And it is not officially an ethnosupremacist state either. You can't just make stuff up.

OpheliaWasntMad · 20/09/2026 09:18

SharonEllis · 20/09/2026 09:15

No the definition of theocracy is not disputed. And it is not officially an ethnosupremacist state either. You can't just make stuff up.

I’m afraid they can make stuff up Sharon. It’s very frustrating but I admire your determination to push back against all the lies.

Orangeyoucan · 20/09/2026 09:23

SharonEllis · 20/09/2026 09:06

This is misinformation of the higgest order. Israel is not even 100 years old as a modern state, I don't even know how you can apply the concept of medieval to it. That would take us down a rabbit hole, suffice to say its ridiculous. Israel is not, by any definition a theocracy. Theocracy has a simple definition 'a form of government where a country is ruled by religious leaders who claim divine authority, and the state's laws are based on religious texts' which does not apply to Israel. Israel is a modern secular democratic state. Halachic law applies in personal/family matters with parallel jurisdictions for other religions. Israel is much more secular than I suspect many mumsnetters realise.

Saudi is not strictly a theocracy because power is held by the royal family not clerics, so its an absolute monarchy though the law, constitution etc are heavily based on sharia.

Iran is a theocracy.

The comparison between the Ukraine/Russia war and Yemen is also complete nonsense but Im assuming people know that.

Edited

Thanks for laying this out so clearly. It’s so frustrating seeing posts from the free Palestine lot that just repeat claims that collapse the moment you look at the actual political systems and legal frameworks.

Labelling Israel as "medieval" or a "theocracy" is so absurd it’s laughable and simply disregards how the state functions, from its parliamentary democracy and secular civil law to its independent courts.

Conflating that with genuine clerical rule like Iran’s, or drawing false parallels between entirely different conflicts, shows a complete lack of basic research and is proof that these people are just jumping on the bandwagon without having a clue what they’re talking about.

The level of ignorance on this thread from people who focus more on trends than facts is truly astounding.

Squeezingwildoranges · 20/09/2026 09:23

SharonEllis · 20/09/2026 09:15

No the definition of theocracy is not disputed. And it is not officially an ethnosupremacist state either. You can't just make stuff up.

You seem very well read on Israeli politics so I am sure you are completely familiar with the actual clauses of the 2018 Nation-State Bill. Perhaps you could explain the meaning of Item C in the Basic Principles section to me if it is not an ethnosupremacist state.

YourAmplePlumPoster · 20/09/2026 09:24

Some of you forget or don't know a third of Israel are Arab Israelis. The ones who stayed behind after the six day war. Are they complicit too or do they get a free pass?

Emilesgran · 20/09/2026 09:25

Martymcfly24 · 20/09/2026 07:11

So since as you said "Since all that Palestinians need to do to stop Israel attacking them is to stop killing Israelis, it doesn’t fit any serious definition of genocide."
And in the just under 12 months since Israelis were last attacked around 300 children/900 people were killed by Israel does that mean your argument holds no water at all ?And that actually just like giving up the hostages and probably disarmament too nothing will stop Israeli forces killing Palestinians (like what a genocide is)

Edited

No it doesn’t. And I don’t believe you’re arguing in good faith because this doesn’t even make sense, and I think you know that.

Squeezingwildoranges · 20/09/2026 09:32

YourAmplePlumPoster · 20/09/2026 09:24

Some of you forget or don't know a third of Israel are Arab Israelis. The ones who stayed behind after the six day war. Are they complicit too or do they get a free pass?

Not a third but 20%. A number that is by design, not accident. Perhaps you are not aware of David Ben Gurion's statement in 1947 where he stated that "a 60% Jewish majority was the absolute bare minimum, and even that was dangerously unstable for a functioning Zionist state".

hellesbells · 20/09/2026 09:32

mids2019 · 16/09/2026 16:46

He did not say anything against the people of Gaza. Ed simply decided he didn't want a political dimension to a concert. It is simply bullying to not support musicians right to not get involved or wish to say silent. Maybe Ed does support the people of Gaza who knows but he made a moral decision to not have political statement at a gig and people should repect that.

No he didn’t do anything of the sort, when he was told by a dodgy billionaire to dump his friend of over 14 years over some very reasonable comments he chose money over friendship, very simple

Emilesgran · 20/09/2026 09:33

Squeezingwildoranges · 20/09/2026 09:23

You seem very well read on Israeli politics so I am sure you are completely familiar with the actual clauses of the 2018 Nation-State Bill. Perhaps you could explain the meaning of Item C in the Basic Principles section to me if it is not an ethnosupremacist state.

So it only became an “ethno supremacist” state in 2018 then?
Is Pakistan an ethnosupremacist state too? Saudi Arabia? The Maldives?

Squeezingwildoranges · 20/09/2026 09:35

Emilesgran · 20/09/2026 09:33

So it only became an “ethno supremacist” state in 2018 then?
Is Pakistan an ethnosupremacist state too? Saudi Arabia? The Maldives?

No, it was always an ethnosupremacist state. See the post about David Ben Gurion' statement. It was simply officially declared as an ethnosupremacist state in a bill which is intended to become part of Israel's future official constitution.

SharonEllis · 20/09/2026 09:37

Squeezingwildoranges · 20/09/2026 09:32

Not a third but 20%. A number that is by design, not accident. Perhaps you are not aware of David Ben Gurion's statement in 1947 where he stated that "a 60% Jewish majority was the absolute bare minimum, and even that was dangerously unstable for a functioning Zionist state".

And you are perfectly well aware of why the modern state of Israel was created. This is so disingenuous. It wouldn't have created much safety if Jews had been in a minority would it? Yet still it was set up as a secular democracy with equal rights for minorities. Something unheard of in the rest of the region and a protection not afforded to Jews elsewhere in the ME, where Jews were being hounded out of their homes.

OnePeppyFatball · 20/09/2026 09:37

If Netanyahu gets in again in October and pushes ahead with his plans for the courts then Israel will become an authoritarian regime. Not a democracy.

OpheliaWasntMad · 20/09/2026 09:37

Squeezingwildoranges · 20/09/2026 09:32

Not a third but 20%. A number that is by design, not accident. Perhaps you are not aware of David Ben Gurion's statement in 1947 where he stated that "a 60% Jewish majority was the absolute bare minimum, and even that was dangerously unstable for a functioning Zionist state".

He said that in 1947 . Two years after the Holocaust. Are you so lacking in empathy for Jewish people that you can’t understand why they feared living in a country where they weren’t a majority. They had experienced what it was like to be a vulnerable minority - 6 million murdered.

Twiglets1 · 20/09/2026 09:38

TotaleclipseinFrance · 20/09/2026 08:34

This isn't really true, though.
He has been political when it suits him.

I suppose he's some people's idea of a musician.

Yes I suppose he is some people's idea of a musician seeing as he has made approx £410 million from it.

Emilesgran · 20/09/2026 09:39

Squeezingwildoranges · 20/09/2026 09:35

No, it was always an ethnosupremacist state. See the post about David Ben Gurion' statement. It was simply officially declared as an ethnosupremacist state in a bill which is intended to become part of Israel's future official constitution.

Yet freedom of religion is guaranteed, unlike Saudi or the Maldives (or, in practice, many other countries). Would it be reasonable for Christmas in the Maldives to attack Muslim citizens in their homes due to this?

Squeezingwildoranges · 20/09/2026 09:39

SharonEllis · 20/09/2026 09:37

And you are perfectly well aware of why the modern state of Israel was created. This is so disingenuous. It wouldn't have created much safety if Jews had been in a minority would it? Yet still it was set up as a secular democracy with equal rights for minorities. Something unheard of in the rest of the region and a protection not afforded to Jews elsewhere in the ME, where Jews were being hounded out of their homes.

If it is secular and not an ethnosupremacist state, how do you explain Item C.

Twiglets1 · 20/09/2026 09:39

hellesbells · 20/09/2026 09:32

No he didn’t do anything of the sort, when he was told by a dodgy billionaire to dump his friend of over 14 years over some very reasonable comments he chose money over friendship, very simple

Not that simple. What about all the people who had paid money and gone to effort to attend his concerts? Doesn't he owe them anything?

Squeezingwildoranges · 20/09/2026 09:41

Emilesgran · 20/09/2026 09:39

Yet freedom of religion is guaranteed, unlike Saudi or the Maldives (or, in practice, many other countries). Would it be reasonable for Christmas in the Maldives to attack Muslim citizens in their homes due to this?

I don't indulge deflection by whataboutism. If you'd like to start a thread to discuss them, that's fine.

genuineflexor · 20/09/2026 09:42

I think he’s a horrible little goblin. He’s makes my skin crawl and his music is bloody awful so he deserves everything he gets. I don’t care about the rest.

OpheliaWasntMad · 20/09/2026 09:46

genuineflexor · 20/09/2026 09:42

I think he’s a horrible little goblin. He’s makes my skin crawl and his music is bloody awful so he deserves everything he gets. I don’t care about the rest.

Macklemore ?

He did look like a horrible goblin when he performed as a caricature of a Jew.

Squeezingwildoranges · 20/09/2026 09:49

OpheliaWasntMad · 20/09/2026 09:37

He said that in 1947 . Two years after the Holocaust. Are you so lacking in empathy for Jewish people that you can’t understand why they feared living in a country where they weren’t a majority. They had experienced what it was like to be a vulnerable minority - 6 million murdered.

Of course I have empathy for what happened in the holocaust but I also have empathy for the indigenous population who have had to pay the price for something they had nothing to do with. This also does not detract from the fact that Israel is officially an ethnosupremacist state.

YourAmplePlumPoster · 20/09/2026 09:50

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Twiglets1 · 20/09/2026 09:52

Squeezingwildoranges · 20/09/2026 09:49

Of course I have empathy for what happened in the holocaust but I also have empathy for the indigenous population who have had to pay the price for something they had nothing to do with. This also does not detract from the fact that Israel is officially an ethnosupremacist state.

Of course I have empathy for what happened in the holocaust but

PiddingtonFan · 20/09/2026 09:53

The attack was 2 years in planning and the following is regarded as Sinwar (Hamas leader) intent:

"Captured documents, intelligence assessments, and secret meeting minutes seized by the Israeli military outline Yahya Sinwar's primary intent for what would happen after the October 7th attacks. Rather than planning a localized, short-term border raid, Sinwar's strategic goals were designed to permanently alter the Middle East. 1, 2]

  1. Triggering a Regional Conflagration
Sinwar’s central expectation was that a highly devastating attack would force Hamas’s regional allies into an all-out war with Israel. 1, 2]
  • The "Axis of Resistance": Minutes from secret meetings revealed that Sinwar intended to compel Iran and Hezbollah to launch a full-scale synchronized assault from Lebanon, Syria, and Yemen. 1, 2]
  • Miscalculation: While Hezbollah began firing rockets into northern Israel on October 8, and Iran later engaged in direct missile exchanges, neither ally launched the immediate, total ground invasion that Sinwar had anticipated. 1, 2]
  1. Inciting a Domestic Palestinian Uprising
Sinwar intended for the media and graphic documentation of the attack to act as a catalyst for a mass uprising. He explicitly instructed units to broadcast footage to mobilize Palestinians in the West Bank and trigger civil unrest among Arab Israelis inside Israel. He believed this multi-front internal pressure would cause Israeli society to "collapse". 1, 2, 3, 4, 5]
  1. Securing a Massive Prisoner Exchange
By capturing a large volume of hostages, Sinwar aimed to replicate—on a massive scale—the 2011 Gilad Shalit deal (in which he himself was freed alongside over 1,000 prisoners). His intent was to use the hostages as definitive leverage to force Israel into emptying its prisons of all Palestinian detainees. 1, 2]
  1. Derailing Diplomatic Normalization
A major geopolitical goal was to permanently disrupt the ongoing diplomatic talks regarding Saudi-Israeli normalization. By shattering Israel’s facade of regional invulnerability and shifting focus back onto the Palestinian conflict, Sinwar intended to freeze any Arab-Israeli alignment that bypassed Hamas. 1]
  1. Sacrificing the Governance of Gaza for a "Prophetic" Victory
Intelligence officials noted that Sinwar viewed the timeline through a deeply religious and prophetic lens, believing that a catastrophic event was necessary to transition from a phase of "buildup" to a final phase of "total liberation". 1, 2] According to analyses reported by platforms like The Washington Post and NBC News, Sinwar was fully aware that the brutality of the attack would trigger an existential, devastating military response from Israel. Experts suggest he was willing to accept the destruction of Gaza and the loss of Hamas’s civilian governance project, believing that the resulting regional war would ultimately lead to Israel’s long-term undoing."

Yahya Sinwar - Wikipedia

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yahya_Sinwar

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