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Conflict in the Middle East

I think a lot of people misunderstand this aspect of the situation re why civilians are staying in Gaza

166 replies

Jane3212 · 08/09/2026 17:33

I've seen quite a few posts on Mumsnet and elsewhere asking why Gazans with dependent children are staying there despite the danger, some speculating that it's due to Hamas brainwashing to stay no matter what danger and become martyrs.

But that completely ignores that the Rafah Crossing for various reasons has been closed from 2024 and is only partially open now. The huge amount of crowdfunding campaigns to get into Egypt suggest to me that a lot of Gazans DO want to leave while the fighting continues, and do want to protect their children. It's not their fault that this is extremely difficult.

OP posts:
Steve3742 · 22/09/2026 10:59

Bringemout · 22/09/2026 08:43

It is not, syria and lebanon is a french invention, Assad senior used to talk about absorbing Lebanon into greater syria, actually occupied it for decades. Most countries in the middle east are about the same age as Israel.

That's untrue. Most countries in the Middle East were formed out of the Arab Revolt against the Ottoman Empire, which dates to the First World War, 30 years before the formation of Israel.

Serenity75 · 22/09/2026 11:02

Does it matter? Surely we are where we are and you’ve got to deal with it. Regardless of your thoughts on the legitimacy of Israel, they’ve got nuclear weapons and an aggressive military and aren’t going anywhere. You’ve got to deal with the world as it is, rather than how you wish it was.

Bringemout · 22/09/2026 11:03

Steve3742 · 22/09/2026 10:59

That's untrue. Most countries in the Middle East were formed out of the Arab Revolt against the Ottoman Empire, which dates to the First World War, 30 years before the formation of Israel.

They were under the french mandate, the french drew their borders, Lebanon as a nation state with its current borders was created by france.

Bringemout · 22/09/2026 11:04

Squeezingwildoranges · 22/09/2026 09:02

Everyone, not just the Palestinians, Egypt and Israel, knows that there would be nothing temporary about moving the Palestinians into Egypt. That ethnic cleansing plan has been on the cards since Oct 8th if not before.

How do you know this? There are so many inferences and logical jumps when talking about this.

Steve3742 · 22/09/2026 11:05

Tiredtaxpayer · 22/09/2026 08:04

Tensions were rising prior to the 1967 attack.
Egyptian President Gamal Abdel Nasser ordered UN peacekeepers out of the Sinai Peninsula, mobilized troops, and closed the Straits of Tiran to Israeli shipping.
Convinced an Arab attack was imminent following false Soviet intelligence reports, Israel launched a surprise preemptive air assault on June 5.
Israel destroyed most of the Egyptian, Jordanian, and Syrian air forces on the ground within hours, securing total air superiority

In other words, Israel started the 1967 war and seized territory from the countries it attacked. Be honest about this. Of course, they claim they were about to be attacked, but every country that starts a war claims this. Including Nazi Germany, which went to the trouble of faking an attack on one of its communication towers in order to claim to be acting in "self defence" when it invaded Poland, starting the Second World War.

Bringemout · 22/09/2026 11:11

Steve3742 · 22/09/2026 11:05

In other words, Israel started the 1967 war and seized territory from the countries it attacked. Be honest about this. Of course, they claim they were about to be attacked, but every country that starts a war claims this. Including Nazi Germany, which went to the trouble of faking an attack on one of its communication towers in order to claim to be acting in "self defence" when it invaded Poland, starting the Second World War.

He moved 100’000 troops to the Sinai…. Maybe a clue

Squeezingwildoranges · 22/09/2026 11:19

Bringemout · 22/09/2026 11:04

How do you know this? There are so many inferences and logical jumps when talking about this.

There's a precedent. How many Palestinians were allowed to return after they were forced out during the Nakba. I'll answer it for you. None!

Doubleknow · 22/09/2026 11:23

Mumsntfan1 · 09/09/2026 07:08

Yes, those countries don't want them.

Would anywhere else? How popular would an initiative to move thousands to UK (if that's what they wanted) be?

I imagine the main reason many civilians aren't leaving is because it's not very possible.

mywalden · 22/09/2026 11:34

Steve3742 · 22/09/2026 11:05

In other words, Israel started the 1967 war and seized territory from the countries it attacked. Be honest about this. Of course, they claim they were about to be attacked, but every country that starts a war claims this. Including Nazi Germany, which went to the trouble of faking an attack on one of its communication towers in order to claim to be acting in "self defence" when it invaded Poland, starting the Second World War.

Is the Holocaust inversion stuff really neccessary?

Mumsntfan1 · 22/09/2026 11:47

Squeezingwildoranges · 22/09/2026 11:19

There's a precedent. How many Palestinians were allowed to return after they were forced out during the Nakba. I'll answer it for you. None!

Neither were and Jews able to return back to the Muslim countries they lived in for generations. Only difference is that they are now Israelis and not still claiming to be refugees.

Squeezingwildoranges · 22/09/2026 11:50

Mumsntfan1 · 22/09/2026 11:47

Neither were and Jews able to return back to the Muslim countries they lived in for generations. Only difference is that they are now Israelis and not still claiming to be refugees.

They were forced out of Arab countries because of Israel and by Israel. Don't take my word for it. Read Avi Shlaims book. He explains it perfectly.

mywalden · 22/09/2026 12:12

Squeezingwildoranges · 22/09/2026 11:50

They were forced out of Arab countries because of Israel and by Israel. Don't take my word for it. Read Avi Shlaims book. He explains it perfectly.

Edited

You mean his conspiracy theory that the only reason Jewish people left Iraq was because Israel planted false flag attacks? Who's a fan of Hamas?

Mouldemort · 22/09/2026 12:16

Why are they in danger? It's a mystery!

You are asking "why don't the Gazans comply with with the IDF's ethnic cleansing?"

DebbieSavage · 22/09/2026 12:19

Doubleknow · 22/09/2026 11:23

Would anywhere else? How popular would an initiative to move thousands to UK (if that's what they wanted) be?

I imagine the main reason many civilians aren't leaving is because it's not very possible.

It would be very popular amongst various Arab and Middle Eastern communities and also British people in general are very sympathetic to the plight of Palestinian families. It would be something of an incredible vote winner indeed for whichever party wants to step up and defy Israeli/American interests and offer sanctuary to the beleaguered people in Gaza.

Squeezingwildoranges · 22/09/2026 12:20

mywalden · 22/09/2026 12:12

You mean his conspiracy theory that the only reason Jewish people left Iraq was because Israel planted false flag attacks? Who's a fan of Hamas?

Not the only reason but a significant one. What do you mean by "Who's a fan of Hamas?"

mywalden · 22/09/2026 12:39

Squeezingwildoranges · 22/09/2026 12:20

Not the only reason but a significant one. What do you mean by "Who's a fan of Hamas?"

I mean Avi Shlaims is a fan of Hamas as well as a conspiracy theoriest.

Steve3742 · 22/09/2026 12:55

Bringemout · 22/09/2026 11:11

He moved 100’000 troops to the Sinai…. Maybe a clue

Doesn't mean he was about to attack. Maybe he was afraid the Israelis were going to attack Egypt. And he was right. They did.

boxuponboxuponbox · 22/09/2026 12:55

DebbieSavage · 22/09/2026 08:32

Well the entire partition in the Middle East to begin with is a creation of the United Kingdom, so ultimately a lot of the blame does fall on our shoulders. The right thing to do would be to offer sanctuary to any Palestinian family that wishes it.

Despite what many people may say, we are still a wealthy country with plenty of resources to go around, and don't forget, the children will go on to grow up and enter the workforce themselves. We shouldn't look at it this way but it would benefit us too in the long run.

Its not going to benefit our Jewish British citizens by having people who have been indoctrinated since birth to hate Jews and to want to kill them in our country.

Palestinians are a very radicalised population. Its one of the reasons the surrounding Muslim countries do not want to take them in.

Steve3742 · 22/09/2026 12:56

mywalden · 22/09/2026 11:34

Is the Holocaust inversion stuff really neccessary?

I didn't mention the Holocaust. It's telling that you thought it necessary to mention it yourself.

DebbieSavage · 22/09/2026 13:00

boxuponboxuponbox · 22/09/2026 12:55

Its not going to benefit our Jewish British citizens by having people who have been indoctrinated since birth to hate Jews and to want to kill them in our country.

Palestinians are a very radicalised population. Its one of the reasons the surrounding Muslim countries do not want to take them in.

They really aren't. Palestinians by en large are pretty progressive on most things. Why do you think you see so many Gays for Gaza placards?

Steve3742 · 22/09/2026 13:02

Mumsntfan1 · 22/09/2026 11:47

Neither were and Jews able to return back to the Muslim countries they lived in for generations. Only difference is that they are now Israelis and not still claiming to be refugees.

That's untrue. Most of them are capable of returning. They don't want to. In a similar vein, most of the emigration to Israel post 48 was voluntary. There was some hostility to Jews after the 48 war, but not the wide scale pogroms you're suggesting to try and "justify" the ethnic cleansing of Palestine. Two countries that did have sustained campaigns against their Jewish population were Iraq and Egypt, in both cases inspired by Mossad, who wanted the Iraqi Jews, as the oldest Jewish population in the Middle East, to move to Israel. The terrorist campaigns run in Iraq by Mossad (and, later, in Egypt, this time to "justify" the 1956 war) are well documented. Nothing similar happened in any other Arab country.
Like I said, citizenship of Arabic Jews was not removed in most cases. They could return back, if they wanted (although most of them are around a hundred or so years old. But their children could).

GetBernie · 22/09/2026 13:03

Jane3212 · 08/09/2026 22:58

The best scenario would be spreading them among Egypt, Jordan and the Gulf states until it's safe to return. There's obviously several barriers in the way of that.

The barriers to that are that Egypt and Jordan don't want them because they know it will be a trojan horse of terrorism. And yet Israel and Jews, who are main targets of that terror are expected to do what Egypt and Jordan will not.

Mumsntfan1 · 22/09/2026 13:03

DebbieSavage · 22/09/2026 13:00

They really aren't. Palestinians by en large are pretty progressive on most things. Why do you think you see so many Gays for Gaza placards?

Ah yes. Gay people are most welcome in Muslim countries...

AmberTigerEyes · 22/09/2026 13:05

Tiredtaxpayer · 22/09/2026 08:06

Yes and the land was annexed by Jordan, and they never got taken to task over that.

They weren’t taken to task because Jordan & Egypt told the UNSC they were holding the lands, West Bank and Gaza, until the Palestine state were permitted to be established.

AmberTigerEyes · 22/09/2026 13:07

Vargas · 21/09/2026 22:40

Surely Egypt could step up and help their fellow Arabs?
Or perhaps they fear Hamas terrorism as much as Israel does?

They have been in terms of aid and taking in many of the Palestinians that Israel allows to be medically evacuated. What other kind of help were you thinking of?

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