This is the reality of Hamas

Do think he is lying though?

Everyone is so angry that the hostages have been at risk for so long, from Hamas, from the bombing, from illness, from despair. He might not want to loose face as he and Netanyahu have been stalling a ceasefire and hostage release.

It is very worrying.

I've been told that Ben-Gvir via his SM account denies this.

Still, the fear is ever present, particularly for the families of those still held hostage.

This is the kind of thing I expect from terrorist groups and that has been a genuine fear from most quarters since 7th October 2023. 👇

@Scirocco I am sorry that you have lost innocent friends in this conflict. Like many people on these threads, I have great respect and affection for you and am sometimes overwhelmed by your dignity, empathy and tolerance at what is a terrible time.

@manonwelfling No, I meant successive. Typically in deals an offer is brought to the table, considered and if it’s not a sufficiently good deal it gets rejected.A new proposal follows with a different set of compromises. In the case of Israel/Palestine the best deal seems to have been the 1948 one but it clearly wasn’t very good from the Arab point of view- like give us half your land and we’ll stop killing you???? How would any of the offers that followed improved the day to day life of Palestinians?
Why wouldn’t there be a terrorist problem if peaceful protest is suppressed and no realistic deal is offered? This is not condoning terrorism but revenge killing tens of thousands of people to teach Hamas a lesson isn’t going to eliminate terrorism.

3/ I won't be more 'explicit' about successive - you mean subsequent?- offers, none of them were deemed acceptable in any way, so here we are.

Were there, from Palestinians’ point of view, reasons to see them as being unacceptable? No right of return for Palestinians? Increasing numbers of illegal settlements on Palestinian land and no real Palestinian state offered?

Trump Plan 2020

Palestinian representatives had originally not even been invited to the planned first meeting.

Feb 2020 Peace Negotiations
^The Secretary-General of the League of Arab States said the measures proposed in the United States peace plan will impact many issues that should be addressed through negotiations, adding that the measures benefit only the Israeli side.

Whereas the “blueprint” was presented as the “fruit” of negotiations, it excludes the Palestinians and seems to imply that the plan will be imposed upon them. The plan appears to have been drafted with the idea of seeing it rejected by Palestine and the world, he said, adding that it also sets new parameters — granting land, settlements and Jerusalem to Israel, while not proposing a realistic two-State solution.

Instead, it seems to propose the creation of a single State with two categories of citizens: those with and those without rights, he noted.
https://press.un.org/en/2020/sc14103.doc.htm

I just went on to look up more about the @plan for Palestinians in 2020 and don’t see how they could have accepted it. It was a Trump and Netanyahu deal for a false state basically controlled by Israel and included lot more annexation for Israel.

What a total waste of space and a dick he is. May he rot. However, many f his sick followers will mourn him.

No one said they did. This is a thread about 'The reality of Hamas' their actions and their supporters. Some Palestinians and others clearly support them, some don't. However, the most recent posts were about the rape of a man and his testimony, not the IDF, a fake story about dog rape and Palestinians. But there you go, derail derail same old same old. Some on here will derail any talk about hamas and their dreadful actions....🙄

@Kindatired
1/ What is your point about 'grass root support for hamas', I haven't said anything about that? Actually don't bother replying.
2/ You were talking about 1948; everything was on the table.
3/ I won't be more 'explicit' about successive - you mean subsequent?- offers, none of them were deemed acceptable in any way, so here we are.

I had friends who did not support Hamas at all. Israeli forces killed them.

@manonwelfling
Hamas clearly has enjoyed some level of grassroots support, the extent of which is debatable, impossible to quantify precisely and has varied over time. The right to become an Israeli citizen doesn’t really seem to be a good offer if people have lost homes, land , even loved ones and are not even being offered parity of esteem for their language , religion and culture. If an Israeli passport is the best recompense for what was lost, there was always going to be deep seated unrest. Can you be more explicit about what successive proposed deals would have offered in terms of the impact on daily life?

@Polarnight my point being innocent Palestinians and innocent Israelis don't deserve to be killed whether they support their governments or not

And many Israelis support the IDFs actions in Gaza and there were Israelis celebrating and blocking humanitarian aid. What's your point? Innocent Palestinians are not Hamas

I believe they support hamas in full and have no desire for peace.

Do you believe Netanyahu, Smotrich and Ben-Givr desire peace with Palestinians on a basis that does not subjugate them or take away their land?

I don't believe Palestinians object to what hamas do. They were seen to be celebrating October 7th.

I believe they support hamas in full and have no desire for peace.

What's interesting is that you keep saying Palestinian not Hamas. As I've said talk about Hamas all you like but don't equate innocent Palestinians with Hamas.

You have hundreds of threads to slate Israel and you do.
Whose you?

The majority of posters are not slating Israel they are slating Netanyahu and the IDF. Most don't blame innocent civilians for the actions of their government as you are doing

You missed what I said, that some things exist only because of another. That is the dynamism.

For example, I could have a thread about Israel bombing Palestine. Someone might come on to say they are doing that because of Hamas attacking, raping, murdering and capturing Israelis on Oct 7. Would I be right to say, go away, we are only talking about what Israel does?

Why are you talking about IDF dogs raping?

You have hundreds of threads to slate Israel and you do. Carry on. Some of us avoid them. You cannot possibly leave one thread slating Hamas alone. Interesting.

Say what you want about Hamas no one supports them but many posters will have an issue with you equating innocent Palestinians with Hamas. I get it you hate Palestinians that's obvious but stop dehumanising them here.

Firstly you're not the thread police so people can post what they like

Secondly you're not slagging off Hamas you are equating Palestinians with Hamas and dehumanising Palestinians in the process. The majority of posters on these threads are extremely careful not to equate innocent Israelis with the a actions of their government and military, your hate for Palestinians is showing and clear for all to see. @US2gether yours too.

Yes. It's supposed to be about hamas but some posters cannot allow that.

The dogs made to rape story was a particularly sick thing to invent. I avoid those threads now as many other posters do. To some hamas apologists everything is justified. They keep popping over the few threads about hamas or threads about the hostages to derail though. It appears 500 threads aren't enough.

@AhNowTed is it going to make me change my mind about hamas?

This is about Hamas, including Israelis setting the dog on the man with Doens Syndrome. Hamas exists as the other side of the same coin.

Nope, this thread is about Hamas. If you want to discuss Israelis and dogs you already have upwards of 500 other threads to do so. Although some posters are so far gone on there that it wasn't that long ago some of you were giving serious discussion to the IDF specifically training dogs to rape Palestinian women. Because some random on Twitter said so, so it must have been true.

One of the sickest things I have ever seen on MN. I would guess it was probably at that point a lot of posters left the CITME board.

Their testimony is here if you care to read it.

x.com/ferozesidhwa/status/1816488896005648589?s=46&t=tm415yZZZz0e-dE263leqA

There are other threads for you to slag off Israel again...this one is about Hamas and what they're doing.

"nor are Palestinian children and civilians, ever, a military target."

45 American doctors say otherwise.

“Every single signatory to this letter treated children in Gaza who suffered violence that must have been deliberately directed at them. Specifically, every one of us on a daily basis treated pre-teen children who were shot in the head.”

www.theguardian.com/world/article/2024/jul/25/israel-gaza-war-biden-letter