Please do all you can to object to the genocide of Palestinians (Thread 2)

The number will no doubt be higher now

The figures speak volumes

Tell that to Hamas who are using their people as 'human shields' and 'bargaining chips'.

https://charlotteclymer.substack.com/p/hamas-does-not-care-about-palestinians

Really?

What 75 years?

So when Palestinians were under the control of Egypt and/or Jordan for 20 years they were traumatised?

Why not take that up with Egypt/Jordan?

Israel is dropping U.N. targeted missiles that cannot avoid killing large numbers of civilians and it is hitting key civilian infrastructure to the point where the population is being deprived of the basic necessities of life- clean water, shelter, food, medical care. As well as this, we have repeatedly seen forced transfer, often to areas less safe than the areas from where people were transferred. The long term consequences of maiming and killing so many people are foreseeable. Crimes against humanity have taken place that are punishable genocidal acts so the ICJ just has to determine if genocidal intent can be inferred.

Israel argues that its actions are not being done with genocidal intent but it must reasonably know the likely consequences of its actions. Inference of intent by deed can be taken and therefore Israel should be convicted of genocide in due course.

Israel’s actions are not justified on the basis of self defence and its closest allies have repeatedly indicated that another approach is feasible in dealing with Hamas. It was not therefore forced to take this course.

The 7/10 atrocities would be unlikely to meet the substantiality requirements for genocide because the number of people involved is not sufficient to endanger the overall survival of Israel as well as some other technical reasons. Some posters here have referred to 7/10 as a pogram, but that probably doesn’t convey the horror sufficiently.

Isreal you have to live with your actions for the rest of your lives, a large chapter in your young history. The world is watching even if they aren't doing anything about it. I'm not sure this will have your lives and country more secure long term. Yes you will have conquered the West Bank and will have the extra land, but the blood will never wash way.

... by the way: no idea what MN sets as a rule for "can no longer edit a post" but: the assumption for 2/3 fatalities are women and children is based on "widely reported as such" - it also, roughly, tallies with demographics as in some 40-50% of Gazans are children (and, an operating assumption that the other half are roughly 50/50).

No, they are not! Or, if they are, they are so terrifyingly incompetent that they should be immediately disarmed and put under UN supervision until tangible improvement can be demonstrated!

I went ahead and crunched a few numbers ... because that happens to be what - among other things - I do for a living!

Here they are! General conclusion:

• Even if you are being generous to Israel (a.k.a. "assuming a generally "lower end of the claims and slightly rounded up figure for "civilian deaths", you end up at at figure of ~64% of all 7 October fatalities being civilian.
• Even if you end up being "brutal" towards Palestinians - assuming that a) 10% of all women and children killed were, in fact, combattants - and some 80% of all men killed were, too - you[ll still end up with a ~67% civilian casualty rate.
• Obviously, if you adjust your assumptions (e.g. adjusting for the arguably underestimated Palestinian death toll - which does not include either those still buried under the rubble or "non-immediate" deaths such as those resulting from injury or - even more indirectly - from situations such as "diabetic - technically died of diabetes (but: only due to the inability to access medication) the proportions will shift. I am not even going to attempt this exercise! This is not my job!
• Once more, in the spirit of being "generous to Israel" I have completely disregarded dead soldiers - proportionally, those would shift the "civilian death toll" down.
• I have also completely ignored the West Bank.

Suffice to say ... even taking very generous assumptions, the civilian deaths on 7 October are proportionally about as significant than those of Gazans - probably more (but, again, conservative estimates taken on purpose).

See rough calculation below ...

... and, for the record, no, this is not meant to be some "definitive calculation". It is a "rough model" - the sort of thing I would construct at work in order to have a plausible case to waste "expert hours" on in order to refine further.

Now, do you condemn the IDF, who are, literally, plausibly "worse than Hamas" in terms of "doing their best" not to harm civilians?

75 years of generational trauma and counting.

Yes, the damage done exceeds what has been done to their bodies and their homes. It will last generations.

And missing under rubble

Unfathomable.

That’s just the ones killed.
Many more mutilated, orphaned, bereaved and severely traumatised.

x.com/bydonkeys/status/1754598375129833846?s=46

"Israel has killed over 11,500 Palestinian children in Gaza and the West Bank since October 7th, when 36 Israeli children were killed.

It’s impossible to imagine that number. This is what it looks like. A line 5km long.

(Location: Bournemouth Beach)"

Very moving video 😭💔

https://www.instagram.com/p/C292dZgOxMx/?igsh=cGw0Z3I4OGJxd2Jo An aid truck attacked ~ pictures show the damage the gunfire made

Thank you for continuing the post. I continue to object to the genocide, and I continue to object to our governments support for it.
There is no justification for the actions of Israel’s government against the civilians of Palestine. I haven’t heard one thing that could persuade me to believe otherwise.
Also, I am not a terrorist, I do not support Hamas, and I am not antisemitic. I am against the mass and unnecessary killing of civilians and the infrastructure that supports their lives.

As is your right.
Shame you don't bother to explain why though.

Sorry but...... Lord Bebo??

Seriously

You haven't pointed out any facts.

I object to your post.

Please see the facts I've just posted above.

I'll let the numbers do the talking:

At least 27,238 people have been killed and 66,452 wounded in Israeli attacks on Gaza since October 7. The death toll in Israel from the October 7 Hamas attacks stands at 1,139.2 days ago

www.aljazeera.com › liveblog
Israel's war on Gaza updates: Clashes in Gaza City after Israeli all-clear

In his Oakland hearing, White heard evidence from experts on genocide and said in his ruling “the undisputed evidence before this Court comports with the finding of the ICJ and indicates that the current treatment of the Palestinians in the Gaza Strip by the Israeli military may plausibly constitute a genocide in violation of international law”.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2024/feb/01/genocide-gaza-israel-california-court

Do you object to people pointing out facts?