Please do all you can to object to the genocide of Palestinians (Thread 2)

https://www.instagram.com/reel/C3Nh0_AI0mr/?igsh=MXIzdGtyN2NteGZjcA== Amazing people trying to keep the spirits of children up

https://www.instagram.com/reel/C3OnANQIttt/?igsh=ZDVyeXFhdm44M2M2 The bombing in Rafah

https://www.instagram.com/reel/C3N80tRAd-G/?igsh=MWcwMjlkZjZiazQ3Yw== Mark Ruffalo

This is horrendous

That's because it doesn't apply to them, of course. They use it as and when it suits them....

Yet still some try to defend a genocide. Lovely indeed

Ahh let's attempt to try and cast doubt on a horrendous incident.

Let me guess, Hamas is to blame? 🙄

That’s unfortunate but maybe it’s as well not to offer further apologies for ethnic cleansing.
I will summarise the arguments of the pro Israeli lobby again
”Israel has no other option”- disproven. Their chief military allies have prevailed on them unsuccessfully to adopt a different approach .
”It's their fault because they started it”Hamas is directly responsible for the 7/10 attacks just as a heart attack is the direct cause of death in a diabetic person who smokes 60cigarettes a day and ignores their blood sugar and blood pressure readings for years.
“It’s them or us” This is disproven by the relative numbers of casualties as outlined earlier in this thread. @anotherfatyorkie didn’t produce much in the line of support for the view that 10,000 Israelis faced certain death if a ceasefire was implemented now.
”Hamas must be gotten rid of for once and for all” US analysts have stated that this would take 10 years and outside of Israel its widely recognised that the current approach has increased support for Hamas, including in countries bordering Israel. Ideologies are not removed by violence generally but I think America knows a thing or two about intractable conflicts.
“The nature and depth of the Hamas atrocities on 7/10 justify the IDF actions “ As another poster pointed out, this is not a game of top trumps. One set of atrocities does not justify another. Both are morally wrong.
”They’re being evacuated for their own safety” The ICJ 2018 briefing document on genocide says on page 35 that it is unlawful to “ to use evacuation measures based on imperative military reasons to remove the civilian population and seize control over a desired territory “ If evacuation is to take place it should be in satisfactory conditions of hygiene, health, safety and nutrition “.

Biden though is on very shaky ground despite his presidency being extremely successful in economic terms he is facing a lot of criticism at the moment and questions over his cognitive abilities. Americans are getting less and less supportive of America standing with Israel and funding them militarily and if this begins to effect his polling I am not sure Biden will stick to the current path. In saying that Americans don't tend to vote based on foreign policy

That incident took place at the Sheik Radwan area which is in Northern Gaza.

The IDF are no longer operating in Northern Gaza, as far as I am aware. One division has been pulled out of Gaza as the tour of duty has finished.

anotherfatyorkie ·

As I understand it, Human Rights norms impose a duty on States to move people out of harm’s way through (temporary) evacuations as a measure to mitigate loss of life.

Please do not quote the Geneva convention when every Israeli government to date has ignored it, Netanyahu even more so.
You do not ask people to evacuate and then bomb them. It appears that the IDF ( the most moral army in the world) hasn't got the memo.

From the times of Israel
Biden’s aides have been encouraging the president to distance himself from Netanyahu amid “mounting frustration” with the Israeli leader, according to the report, and “to be more publicly critical of the prime minister over his country’s military operation in Gaza” while remaining supportive of Israel.

He is amazingly talented with such bright eyes

Yes. I saw a follow-on video showing how the men nearby had to rescue the little boy.... they were unable to go directly up to him (obviously due to the snipers who are having the time of their lives shooting at anyone and everyone)

@DomPom47 I don't think they will do much either. I read just awhile ago that Biden's advisors have apparently told him he needs to do more to publicly distance himself from Netanyahu but it seems that's about as far as they will go

https://www.instagram.com/reel/C3L2m0cIkXQ/?igsh=NzNvanI0b2wxNjVu Directly from a child who witnessed his parents being murdered in front of him by Israeli Occupying Forces

My god, the perpetrators of this genocide must end up in The Hague. It can’t happen quickly enough. This is an upsetting video. I would say the people who really need to watch this are those who feel this onslaught is justified.

https://x.com/afshinrattansi/status/1756689468939997635?s=61&t=nilGqPeurpC5xVqZAZdZog

Sadly this does not go far enough. Realistically the US government are not going to do anything against Israel and their ongoing bombardment of Palestinian people - the total disproportionate nature. There was sympathy from people after the terrorist attacks of October, but this dissolved with most people with their indiscriminate attacks. Netanyahu will not stop until Gaza is totally wrecked and ultimately it is clear that many members of his right wing government want a Palestinian free Gaza.
A large number of people in the US do not support the actions of the Israeli government. Sadly those in power do not care, the bombings will continue as the USA will not demand an end to the bombings by way of sanctions.
Many, many more innocent Palestinians will die.

It seems many of Israel's allies have now issued statements or commented against the planned attack on Rafah. Yet Netanyahu, is acting like a deranged madman and insisting its the only way he can gain total victory.

From Keir Starmer
There are over 1.4 million displaced Palestinians in Rafah and it is the gateway to aid for Gaza - an Israeli offensive there would be catastrophic.

The fighting must stop now. We need a sustainable ceasefire.

Who knows regarding Egypt? Perhaps the government are weary as Israel has a habit of bombing sovereign territory in violation of international law. So far in this conflict Israel have bombed Syria, Lebanon, Iraq, Egypt (some soldiers were killed on the border with Gaza).

When you are dealing with an entity such as the IDF which openly ignores international law it is in Egypt's interest to protect their security.

Additionally ever since Nasser every Egyptian president has served under the "supervision" of the Egyptian military who effectively control most of the organs of the Government. The threat to suspend the Treaty with Israel is an escalation. Egypt knows that if civilians are displaced into the Sinai, Israel will use this as an excuse to attack Egypt as according to the IDF all civilians are Hamas. Egypt also knows that displacement of civilians is a red line to many governments in the region which could escalate this to a regional war.

I don’t think many people understand the rage that ordinary people in the region feel about the atrocities they're watching being inflicted on the Palestinians. They would be happy to fight Israel and overthrow any government that stands in their way. Even the Saudis (who've so far been extremely quiet) issued a letter condemning the IDF plan on Rafah.

" your attitude suggests that Palestinian lives are worth less than Israeli lives."

If my attitude is as bad as you think why are you engaging with me?

I've nothing more to say to you.

@anotherfatyorkie
Please provide credible objective supporting data for the view that a ceasefire will result in the deaths of 10,00 Israelis
There were c2400 civilians killed in the 1948 Arab Israeli war and less than that number of civilians Israelis killed in the recurrent conflicts that followed including at least 7 more wars.Israeli military casualties were less than 2500 since the 1973 Yom Kippur war.
However since last October, in a matter of weeks more than 10,000 innocent Palestinian civilians have been killed by IDF. As we see this week ,this includes a 6 yo child waiting for an ambulance.
It’s just not morally justified to continue to kill Palestinian civilians on this scale on the pretext of preventing possible future Israeli casualties spread over the coming decades.
In short you overestimate the likely risk of Israeli casualties that would result from a ceasefire and your attitude suggests that Palestinian lives are worth less than Israeli lives.

Well I can't read all of that as it's behind a paywall, however...

Egypt is "between a rock and a hard place" as they say in the movies.

They are losing money, from Suez Canal revenues, hand over fist because of the Houthis. This doesn't help their present debt and economic crisis.

https://www.reuters.com/markets/commodities/egypts-suez-canal-revenues-down-40-due-houthi-attacks-2024-01-11/

The Houthis say they are attacking shipping in solidarity with Hamas.

The Houthis aim is to govern all of Yemen and support external movements against the United States, Israel, and Saudi Arabia.

So it's in Egypt's interest that Hamas is removed.

They could go and bomb Houthi positions in Yemen but that could put them at odds with other Arab States, by being seen to help Israel.

Egypt was involved in a prior Yemeni civil war in the 60s and 70s; even had up to 70,000 Egyptian troops stationed there. It was a big mess for Egypt and they don't want to repeat it, plus they don't have a big navy.

It's just ironic that these attacks on shipping are probably affecting Israel no more than any other country, while they have the potential to totally destroy Egypt's economy. Worth noting also that having some connection to Israel has nothing to do with the ships the Houthis are actually targeting.
And their aim is pretty bad.🙄

Also they are terrified of having an influx of refugees in case they import Hamas.

https://www.npr.org/2023/12/12/1218388766/egypt-israel-gaza-palestinians-hamas

Yes the Wall Street Journal had an article about it. Egypt has also moved their tanks to the Rafah border. The Egyptian government is upset with the Israeli Government plans and the knock on effects.
https://www.wsj.com/world/middle-east/palestinians-brace-for-fresh-israeli-offensive-in-southern-gaza-26a8e8ec