Be aware of misinformation seen regarding Palestine

But they are just allegations at this point.

What the fuck. Hamas livestreamed and posted videos of them doing it.

But they are just allegations at this point. The UN is investigating and Israel is refusing to cooperate. Call me cynical but if Israel had evidence of mass rape they would be shouting it from the rooftops.

None of the hostages had limbs hanging off, or skulls cracked open, or had been skinned alive.

Why are you focusing on the condition of living hostages who have been released, and not the 1200 Israelis who were brutally murdered, or the hostages who have not yet been released (we know at least one has lost an arm, btw). Shani Louk was identified as dead by a fragment of her skull being found at the site of the music festival, if you want to know about skulls being cracked open.

For some very helpful discussion of this, and links to information/ articles (besides Daily Mail ones) look under mumsnet Feminism: Sex and Gender:
https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4945262-feminism-rape-and-israel-content-warning

To be fair, I'm not following the hostage situation very closely so don't know about rape/torture/mutilation allegations.

You don't know that rape, torture and mutilation (as well as murder and kidnapping) happened on October 7th? And these aren't merely "allegations"?

Imagine being a man of his position, in a major war being waged by his own country, involving the USA and backed by other European countries, and not being embarrassed to say he does not know about that Geneva convention.

He is either a slick bare-faced liar, or so stupid he should not have that job. I think liar and spinner wins.

As for parading and traducing those Palestinian men undressed it is not worthy of a civilised state.

It was designed to humiliate. It will do nothing to help. It is pure primitive provocation and revenge.

@Parkingt111 Oh he's very aware of international law and I don't for one moment think he believes his own shit. That image absolutely turned my stomach FWIW, I can barely look at it.

And on top of that when he was pressed on the issue that filming those men whether Hamas members or not goes against the Geneva convention, he responded with he wasn't aware with that aspect of international law!

Which doesn't give much confidence at all

I hope so too, he was so casual about it all. When those images first came out alot of posters on here were not only defending but saying those who opposed to it were totally unreasonable and were being ridiculed

Those same images have now recieved widespread condemnation

I just read this today on sky from a former british army major General who was shocked at what he saw

He said he did not question the need for visual checks for suicide vests but added "in 34 years of quite challenging infantry soldiering I've never once seen scenes like those in the IDF photos. Not once".

Correction:
“They see it as par for the course that 17000 of their own people have been killed since Oct 7 ( about 5000 of whom Hamas fighters according to Israel). “

Typing in a rush on telephone. Apologies. Will go away now.

Well said Thereis

Of course the Palestinians want the genicide of Jews. They don’t want a two state situation. They openly say they want Jews wiped out of Israel

There are plenty among certain Israeli factions in power who want the same for Palestinians, and certainly do not want a two state solution.

Netanyahu was even promoting Hamas to make a two state solution impossible.

Re: “Hamas chooses how it usesits people towards rousing the world’s sympathy for the poor terrorised people”

*Hamas chooses how it usesits people towards rousing the world’s sympathy for the poor terrorised people says itself it is using the people as a human shield against Israeli bombs.(ignore bold here, something went wrong)

This is to act as a deterrent to Israel so they dare not bomb civilians, or if they do dare bomb them, bring the world’s censure on their head (for example as in yesterday the UN calling for a ceasefire even though Hamas are still there and still have hostages).

They see it as par for the course that 17000 people have been killed in a month ( about Hamas of whom Hamas fighters according to Israel). They see them as martyrs in what they believe is a just cause.They must feel the’ve been successful and achieved the outcome they wanted. They may get thousands of new recruits too as a result.

Torturing people alive in front of children, horrific rapes ….. children babies women and old people held hostage in terrible conditions in tunnels …. no wonder Israel has been goaded into rage exactly as Hamas knew they would be probably.

I do think that 12000 non combatant ( other 5000 out if the 17000 Hamas fighters) people including woman children babies old people being killed by bombs, suffocated, limbs amputated, children made orphans all infrastructure including hospitals bombed, journalists and UN workers killed by Israel, people starving and without their homes as well as all the back story is appalling on Israel’s part.

Others are taking how many days to die from suffocation crushing or bleeding to death under the rubble?

But Hamas set this up too and is using its people as it chooses imo.

How do you deal with them?

And I've seen it so many times here that "October 7th couldn't have been more barbaric". I'm not saying this to be goady at all, but why do people think this? I can think of a million ways it could have been more barbaric.

I'm finding it hard to think of anything more barbaric than the triptych of rape, torture and mutilation, but OK would be keen to hear of the million ways?

but Hamas chooses how it usesits people towards rousing the world’s sympathy for the poor terrorised people, and the attack on innocent Israelis on Oct 7 could not have been more barbaric, full of intentional torture, the taking of hostages who were not soldiers and even included babies and women - and this horror was perpetrated against some of the most peace promoting Israelis possible

What do you mean by this @ScrollingLeaves that "Hamas chooses its people towards rousing the world's sympathy...?"

And I've seen it so many times here that "October 7th couldn't have been more barbaric". I'm not saying this to be goady at all, but why do people think this? I can think of a million ways it could have been more barbaric. That is not to say I agree with it, I don't at all, but it's like this weird shock that something like this could possibly happen to an Israeli (Jewish?) person? I'm asking a genuine question.

There is such anger and pain on both sides that has been exploited and magnified now into such extreme hatred, violence and killing. One side with a lot more money and power than the other, yet claiming the moral high ground, and I’m sorry but that particular lie really boils my piss.

There will have to be a lot of turning the cheek from BOTH sides if this is ever to end.

And any Palestinian person who fights back or tries to physically resist the relentless racist illegal violent progressive occupation is a genocidal terrorist and is arrested and often detained for years without charge.

@Parkingt111 Regev is a disgrace and also not the clever spin doctor he thinks he is. Can you believe this is a man who once styled himself as a socialist? Hopefully his time will come as quickly as Netanyahu's does.

And any Israeli or Jewish person who says otherwise is a far-left self-hater that must lose their job and/or be arrested, physically threatened and harassed.

@ScrollingLeaves
Thank you.
Hamas is bad for Israelis and for Palestinians. But no one has argued otherwise.

What I object to is the narrative that all Palestinians voted for Hamas, all Palestinians are animals and vermin, all Palestinians support Hamas in wanting genocide (so must be killed first), Israel has done nothing wrong except try to exist, the IDF is the most moral army in the world, Israel isn’t hurting anyone in Gaza except a few collaterals, God gave all this land (and more!) to his chosen people.

And it's not just the bigger lies, it's sometimes the little things that it makes no sense to lie about

So for example when Regev was questioned about the images of the stipped blindfolded men, one of the things he said was it's the middle east and its warmer climate so its fine
But everyone knows that it's really cold In Gaza right now and MSM have reported on the weather conditions
Why lie about something that is blatantly untrue? And when these lies build up, it means many will then discredit those things that are true

But I have seen a speech by Fathi Hammad actually saying they [Hamas] use Palestinian woman, children and the elderly as a human shield against Israeli bombs, and praising these killed innocents as martyrs.

Another Hamas spokesman, or it might be Fathi Hammad again, has actually said that the people are not Hamas’s responsibility to feed etc because as they are occupied it is all up to the UN. But Hamas are the people’s authority.

I have posted copies of these speeches before. I don’t have time to find and copy and paste them here again, but they are on a site called Memri which posts video clips of people speaking together with translations.

Of course the Israelis relentlessly bombing and bombing a densely packed territory where the people have nowhere to go is the fault of the Israelis, but Hamas chooses how it uses its people towards rousing the world’s sympathy for the poor terrorised people, and the attack on innocent Israelis on Oct 7 could not have been more barbaric, full of intentional torture, the taking of hostages who were not soldiers and even included babies and women - and this horror was perpetrated against some of the most peace promoting Israelis possible.

Hamas wanted this response surely?

It seems Israel also wants this opportunity to smash Hamas and Gaza, and there is all the background going back decades, but I do think you can blame Hamas to large extent for the dreadful consequences to their own people.

I agree there is alot of misinformation on both sides but I don't believe that all those who right now criticise israel for the brutal sustained attack on the palestininans do it because they have been brainwashed by Hamas propaganda

what about all the countries that voted for a ceasefire? Could they have been duped by Hamas propaganda

What about MSM? That has been exposing many of the Israeli government and IDF lies
Have they also been taken in by Hamas propaganda?

This.