Thread 2 To think Hamas have given Israel the excuse they were looking for?

I don't think Hamas or the IDF care about Palestinian civilians, as they have both shown, even in past conduct.
I was referring to the poster not having sympathy for ordinary Gazans, who are being oppressed and attacked on two fronts.

Don't you understand that Hamas also oppress Palestinians?
Well, yes, and one of the ways they do this is to use civilians as human shields in their dirty war.
That way, anyone attacking them is demonised for killing children.

Do you know about every terrorist group in your country? I certainly don't feel responsible for the terrorist attacks in the UK, although by your logic they are British and were operating and planning in the UK for a long time, so it's on all our shoulders.
Don't you understand that Hamas also oppress Palestinians? Would you speak up against them while they stood in front of you armed to the teeth?

What an awful and simplistic view. I'm glad most of the public here don't seem to share it.

Thank you to Hamas for the gro pro footage. You have made sure that I have zero support and sympathy for anyone who comes out of Gaza.
All the people In Gaza surely knew about the underground bunkers, about the training centers next to their hospitals and the water pipes that disappeared.

Good to see a voice of reason. Let's hope Israel listens instead of continuing its collective punishment

The UN secretary general, António Guterres, has called for an immediate humanitarian ceasefire in Gaza, saying the “appalling attacks” by Hamas inside Israel on 7 October cannot justify the “collective punishment of the Palestinian people” and that “no party to an armed conflict is above international humanitarian law”.
He said at the UN in New York that he was “deeply concerned about the clear violations of international humanitarian law that we are witnessing in Gaza”, adding: “Our UN fuel supplies in Gaza will run out in a matter of days. That would be another disaster. To ease epic suffering, make the delivery of aid easier and safer and facilitate the release of hostages, I reiterate my appeal for an immediate humanitarian ceasefire.”
Guterres said the 7 October attacks did not happen “in a vacuum”, and that “the Palestinian people have been subjected to 56 years of suffocating occupation. They have seen their land steadily devoured by settlements, plagued by violence, their economy stifled, their people displaced and their homes demolished. Their hopes for a political solution to their plight have been vanishing.”
He said: “At a crucial moment like this, it is vital to be clear on principles – starting with the fundamental principle of respecting and protecting civilians.”

Yes, I read the same report and I’m not
disputing the number of Israeli airstrikes but nice deflection.

Indeed, there are condescending and inflammatory posts from both sides of the debate.

There are certain posters that reply 99% of the time being rude and/or condescending. I've stopped engaging, no point when all they want to do is thrash out their views and reply to opposing viewpoints with "I don't care" and similar.

And yes I am interested in the conflict but I have quite basic knowledge on kibbutz. I have never professed to knowing everything about this conflict and have said many times that I have learnt alot from other posters here, especially the ones who have given first hand accounts of views and politics who live in Israel
I'm always open to learning.

You're not familiar with the kibbutz movement at all? I thought you were very interested in the conflict? Yes I did intend to be patronising. Where did you get the idea that no one living in a kibbutz is a westerner? Or that naivety is somehow related to a lack of intelligence? I have so many questions.

Why are people from kibbutzes seen as more naive than most western people?
I don't think it was your intention but it does sound quite patronising

Especially as you go on to say they will cling to their beliefs regardless of consequences to themselves or others.
Almost as if they aren't as smart or intelligent as westerners

Yes
In the next paragraph which I didn't paste it stated that Israel said it carried out 400 strikes overnight
So according to that I wouldn't think that figure give or take is too far off

Very true.

When Mosab Yousef calls for unity, he is not talking in a vague happy-rainbow Children of the Earth way. He is urging us to back Israel and stop being naive about Hamas's immediate and global ambitions. I'd say as the son of a founding Hamas leader, he should know.

Very good point 👉

Before anyone takes the public words or actions of released hostages too seriously, remember that they're aware there are other hostages still in the power of Hamas, often including friends or family members. And Hamas are well aware of how to.appeal to the emotions of gullible westerners. Beyond that, people from kibbutzes are, on average, if anything even more naive than most western people. Many people will cling to their beliefs regardless of the consequences for themselves or anyone else.

An interesting short interview with the son of one of Hamas's founding leaders, calling for unity:

“Hamas-run health ministry says more than 700 killed in past 24 hoursThe Hamas-run ministry of health in Gaza has issued an update, saying at least 5,791 people have been killed in Gaza since 7 October.”
The loss of life and the suffering inflicted on the Palestinians is appalling but please be aware of who is providing these figures.

Was it on Channel 4 news? I remember the same interview too

Yesterday I tried to find them talking about their 'stockpiles' for someone - just a totally overwhelming amount of information to wade thro'

I can't find where or if I did read it somewhere or if it was mentioned in discussion with someone else so can discard that for the time being. If I do come across it will share it.

Il try and look for it

I did read somewhere that there were some youth and other people who saw what was happening and took it as an opportunity to join in. Il try to look for the source.

I'd be interested to see that, I'd find it plausible. Leaving aside the obvious horror and brutality of the attack, there was an extreme lack of discipline in evidence which is in contrast with the hostage handover.

Yes I saw it was either guardian or sky. Somebody asked her why did you shake his hand? And she said because they treated me very well.
Again not condoning taking hostages and then saying oh well it's ok to do so aslong as treat them well.

They seem to have gone on a rampage on Oct 7th, with a level of atrocity that it's hard to stomach.
Then abducted others as bargaining chips, so kept them alive. So a two pronged attack, maybe?

I did read somewhere that there were some youth and other people who saw what was happening and took it as an opportunity to join in. Il try to look for the source.