Thread 2 To think Hamas have given Israel the excuse they were looking for?

They've stated they don't want to be complicit in the "ethnic cleansing of Gaza". It isn't due to dislike of Palestinians.

I think like you, @Parkingt111 , I need to step away from the whole topic, it's just too distressing! Time to be kind to ourselves I think, and grateful that we are safe and have the capacity to enjoy life, on behalf of so many who don't have that luxury. 💗

This is another memorable one, but they all haunt me
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Thank you for this. I'm going to watch it later on
@SomeCatFromJapan what we were discussing earlier in the day

@Alcemeg I wish you did too!
I was simply pointing out that if we were to use the Son of Hamas to justify Israels strategy then only one part can't be used in isolation 😊

There's plenty more testimonies if you just search "Hamas survivor" on YouTube. This was one of the easier ones to watch.

Thank you @Alcemeg for sharing that. Upsetting as it was to watch, that is one very brave young lady.

I wish I could wave a wand and have it all sorted out and everyone living peacefully! Unfortunately it doesn't work that way!

No idea, of course, but I can only assume that Israel's reluctance is because there were high numbers of Gazan civilians involved in the attacks of 7 October.

This girl mentions it at 15:21. I haven't mentioned it before because I wasn't sure whether she might just have picked up the idea from social media (although she herself survived the festival attack)...
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...but today this has been confirmed by Dr Qanta Ahmed, who has been watching the evidence firsthand in Israel and visiting the attack sites. At 01:05 in this video just released, she describes hundreds, possibly thousands, of Gazan civilians repeatedly entering to attack.
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It must be extremely difficult to identify the "innocent civilians" in these circumstances. I mean, honestly, if crowds fill the streets of Britain to celebrate the 7 Oct attacks, then what must it be like in Gaza?!

It was in response to @Alcemeg as the excerpt he typed out gave the reasons why Aid shouldn't be allowed but also mentioned the above as part of the tactic
I was simply pointing out that the son of the Hamas leader didn't mention this in isolation but alongside the humanitarian aspect of letting out women children etc

But in this case it is 100% relevant as she has been endorsed by Netanyahu. Not just a random person on the street

No, the Egyptians don't want them.

@Parkingt111 where are you suggesting they go? What safe zone given Israel are still being subjected to rocket attacks.

Not sure the Egyptian's are keen either. And Hamas has told them not to go.

For every one of those posts, we could post with similar that's been said about the Jews. How is it helping?

Is it helping the father who said he was glad his little girl was killed so she wouldn't have to suffer as a hostage?

We don't need the emotional blackmail.

@Alcemeg this

@Alcemeg but the aid not coming in specifically for Hamas makes sense. Not for the innocent civilians hence he says this

I suggest that we open the border for the Palestinian innocent people, including women, children and elders, to leave the Gaza Strip or to go into a safe zone

But Israel have flat out refused for this to happen
In fact this is what one of Israeli ministers has to say

It’s not really how you feel, or people posting on SM, it’s what it prompts Israel to do next.

Diplomacy has got to be getting to the right place not alienation and more anger.

Israel is hurting, understandably. It’s going to take good diplomacy as a concerted effort.

This sounds a bit worrying from UN agency in Gaza

The lack of fuel getting into Gaza is plunging hospitals into dire straits but is also affecting aid agencies, as well of course as ordinary Palestinians struggling underneath the Israeli blockade and bombardment.
The United Nations relief agency for Palestinian refugees, formally the UN Relief and Works Agency (Unrwa) has tweeted/posted a desperate message that it will run out of fuel inside Gaza by Wednesday night “forcing us to halt operations and delivery of humanitarian aid to people in need.”

Meanwhile, Israel has accused Hamas of stealing fuel form Unrwa, with an Israeli military spokesperson stating in a quick snap on Reuters that:
Petrol that Hamas stoke from UNRWA” should be given to hospitals.

So then how many civilian deaths are acceptable as collateral damage in targeting Hamas?

That's a sly question. Obviously, none. But war is ugly.

This one is complicated by the fact that Hamas as so deeply enmeshed in the intimate structures of civilian life in Gaza.

I don’t know if you made time to watch this video I posted earlier, with his son?

In case you can't be bothered, I've typed out his answer at 07:25, in response to a question about aid reaching the civilians (I do type fast!!! 😜):

You know, the US and Europe have been very generous with the Palestinian people. But their leadership steals the money, all the time. They steal the aid. So much aid came into Gaza; Hamas used all that aid to build tunnels under the ground, and now look at the chaos they are creating. The aid is great, but not right now. I suggest that we open the border for the Palestinian innocent people, including women, children and elders, to leave the Gaza Strip or to go into a safe zone. In the meantime, we have to enforce unbreachable siege on Hamas. Otherwise, we are not able to deplete them. They are under the ground. They have hostages. We have to cut power. We cannot give them food. We cannot give them water. And we have to deplete them for long weeks before we can even go in. Otherwise, we cannot win this war against this brutal enemy – enemy of humanity.

Maybe that's a good strategy? I've no idea, but you'd think he'd have some bright ideas, given who his father is.

But in todays statement the head of UN did condemn
These were his words: UN Secretary General Antonio Guterres is currently speaking at the session, saying he has "condemned" the "horrifying and unprecedented" attack by Hamas and "nothing can justify" the killing of civilians.

Israel is just not happy that they are being called out for all their violations that they have been committing. The same ones we often get shot down for stating on here. Atleast the head of the UN said openly what many western governments have only just started saying indirectly

As much as mners might be feeling heartened etc I would caution against too much rejoicing over an angrier and alienated Israel.

For world stability reasons.

I also saw an open letter to the UN today with the anguish they feel over not having the barbaric acts on October 7th fully recognised

Having read what happened, sickening as it was, I would take care to recognise that hurt

Only by showing understanding of the horror can talk be hoped for

Oh 100%

The tide is very definitely turning against the Israeli government.

@Alcemeg the UN have strongly condemned Israel in its violations today and rightly so.
Israels response was to tell the man to resign

Let's say we all agree that Hamas hides behind civilians. Then the only way to be rid of Hamas would be to rid of majority if not all the civilians in Gaza. I'm pretty sure even Israeli ministers as evil as some of them are will say we won't get away with that. So then how many civilian deaths are acceptable as collateral damage in targeting Hamas?

I would agree that some of the civilians have helped them. It would be naive to believe otherwise.