Thread 2 To think Hamas have given Israel the excuse they were looking for?

Isn’t that what SWAT and military infantry teams are for? If terrorists had a rocket launcher on a primary school in Birmingham, we would never air strike the school with all the kids inside. Or encircle Birmingham and lay a siege on it and bombard the whole city- we’d send in teams to evacuate the kids, and seize the rocket launcher.

More depressing & worrying to say the least.

Israeli national security minister Itamar Ben Gvir, who has previously been convicted by Israel of supporting terrorism, distributes weapons to settlers in the occupied West Bank.

More Zionist pogroms of Palestinians are coming.

as reported by Dan Cohen (Reuters & un captured news ) video available at link below.

x.com/dancohen3000/status/1716463538850410879?s=46&t=CDaDBOo42AUxl1VZxDymlA

Hamas has released 2 more hostages

Reuters

Fuel was actually delivered today, so let's see if it gets to where it belongs.
I have only seen reports stating no fuel has been delivered yet.

@rosemaryandparsley

The decision to bombard Gaza is a decision to massacre civilians, half of which are children. It was and is deliberate.

Secondly diesel fuel for generators is not rocket fuel. So your contention that Hamas appropriates fuel for rockets is wildly incorrect.

Israel is in fact responsible for the lack of power in Gaza. It was part of the blockade and is now part of the siege to deny them power.

Good news. Like you say. Let's hope it gets to the right place/people

That's good news about fuel for the hospital generators

Yesterday local people were bringing their own private supplies to one hospital that was on the verge of running out to keep things going

It is chilling reading this update
”In Gaza City, the IDF dropped leaflets written in Arabic that warned residents to evacuate to the south or face the possibility of being considered “a partner for the terrorist organization,” according to a CNN translation.
In a statement, the IDF confirmed it had dropped the flyers, but said there was “no intention to consider those who have not evacuated from the affected area of fighting as a member of the terrorist group.”
https://edition.cnn.com/2023/10/22/middleeast/israel-gaza-hamas-war-sunday-intl-hnk/index.html

I know what is probably coming next and it is too heartbreaking to post.
I worry that Netanhyu knows he will be ousted from government and on the way to a prison cell in The Hague and so doesn’t care anymore. He has no reason to stop the genocide.

Israel should do the equivalent of a no confidence motion or impeachment to remove him from office immediately.

This is a fantastic thread (and podcast )
The Balfour Declaration & the Origins of the Palestine-Israel Conflict

x.com/dalrymplewill/status/1640556214907195392?s=46&t=CDaDBOo42AUxl1VZxDymlA

Not falling for your whataboutery here.

130 premature babies.

So just stop with the justification.
We see you.

@beachcitygirl "I expect sympathy, aid and help for the civilians of Gaza."

None of the neighbouring countries want to take any refugees for a start.

"murder a population that is mostly children."

How are the demographics of the population the responsibility of Israel? And the use of 'murder' is emotive and inaccurate because it implies a deliberate act, which it isn't.

"Including of course the 130 premature babies in hospital in Gaza currently in imminent danger of death due to lack of fuel because it's been switched off."

No-one has 'switched off' any fuel.
If Hamas appropriates the fuel to power rockets then Israel is not responsible for that. And it's not Israel's fault that there isn't an adequate solar power system.

Fuel was actually delivered today, so let's see if it gets to where it belongs.

@TheWayTheLightFalls

sadly I agree and I don't think any of us on here do despite my hopes.

But the current strategy isn't one.

Without a genuine progressive opposition to Bibi and the Kahanist coalition within Israel I don't see a way out of this for innocent Israelis or Palestinians

& I also fear the rampant consequences for Jews & Muslims in the rest of the world as antisemitism and islamophobia runs riot.

It's fucking heartbreaking

Apologies if covered previously, you all lost me for 5-6 pages.

I expect one if the most highly sophisticated well funded security services and army in the world to be able to use ground forces and intelligence networks & massive funding to find Hamas operatives & attempt to bring them to justice. If they are unable to take them alive so be it, but they should try. I won't cry for Hamas terrorists if they are killed in the process.

Hamas has a habit of using human shields - people and also civilian infrastructure. If, for example, the IDF finds rocket launching infrastructure on the roof of a hospital or the grounds of a school - what then? What would you do here?

I’m a Jew. I don’t endorse the current Israeli government. But I don’t understand what a moral solution is to the problem above.

This is a good (if depressing ) article in The Herald

www.heraldscotland.com/life_style/23871192.dangerous-days-now-lie-ahead-middle-east/

@Alcemeg doesn't give Israel a free pass.

Israel's war crimes are far far far worse than that of a terrorist organisation.

We know terrorists are despicable - that's a given. We know Hamas are pure evil. That's a given.

We expect Israel to behave as a democratic elected ally & obey international law & The Geneva Convention.

Right now the tactic appears to be " it's ok we'll just kill everyone & hope we get Hamas & added bonus we'll get Gaza. Woohoo."

To those asking how I would deal with Hamas.

Well let's start by saying that I'ce already answered this further upthread but I'll try again.

I expect one if the most highly sophisticated well funded security services and army in the world to be able to use ground forces and intelligence networks & massive funding to find Hamas operatives & attempt to bring them to justice. If they are unable to take them alive so be it, but they should try. I won't cry for Hamas terrorists if they are killed in the process.

I expect sympathy, aid and help for the civilians of Gaza.

What I don't expect is the breaking of international law

What I don't expect is collective punishment of 2.2 million people for the crimes of a terrorist org.

What I do expect is an elected government of Israel to not indiscriminately punish and murder a population that is mostly children.

Including of course the 130 premature babies in hospital in Gaza currently in imminent danger of death due to lack of fuel because it's been switched off.

Switched off by the of the so-called "human beings " in power in Israel.

That clear enough .

Reading those articles I agree Egypt is being pretty clear it cannot manage to take people

I agree.

I think Egypt has its own issues.

And it could be a case of 'out of the frying pan'

https://www.newarab.com/features/no-recognition-no-rights-palestinians-egypt

@ChickHenLittle But that's not the full story;

https://www.fdd.org/analysis/2023/10/17/israel-war-why-wouldnt-egypt-want-gazan-refugees/

Their refusal is rooted in fear that Israel wants to force a permanent expulsion of Palestinians into their countries and nullify Palestinian demands for statehood.

Although they don't want Hamas fighters coming in, the above is their main issue. It's not through a dislike of Palestinians, but a fear that Israel will push them out and they won't be able to return to their homes.

El-Sissi repeated warnings Wednesday that an exodus from Gaza was intended to “eliminate the Palestinian cause … the most important cause of our region.” He argued that if a demilitarized Palestinian state had been created long ago in negotiations, there would not be war now.
“All historical precedent points to the fact that when Palestinians are forced to leave Palestinian territory, they are not allowed to return back,” said H.A. Hellyer, a senior associate fellow at the Carnegie Endowment for International Peace. “Egypt doesn’t want to be complicit in ethnic cleansing in Gaza.”
Arab countries’ fears have only been stoked by the rise under Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu of hard-right parties that talk in positive terms about removing Palestinians. Since the Hamas attack, the rhetoric has become less restrained, with some right-wing politicians and media commentators calling for the military to raze Gaza and drive out its inhabitants. One lawmaker said Israel should carry out a “new Nakba” on Gaza.

Neither do Jordan;

https://www.pbs.org/newshour/politics/why-egypt-and-other-arab-nations-are-hesitant-to-take-in-palestinian-refugees