Experiences of Pethidine

susanmt, what a generous message. i did get upset by your choice of words. thanks for your apology. i'm glad things went the way you wanted given your medical history, and it is a big achievement to give birth to a large OP baby with syntocin and no epi. i know because i had a 9lb7oz OP baby, had the epi after 27hrs and only 4cm dilated, it didn't work, so they kept upping the syntocin, which made it more painful, and the second epi didn't work either! don't know what they gave me in the end (elephant tranx?) but ds finally arrived with the aid of a ventouse after a total of 43hrs. anyway, enough of that. i think you should feel proud of yourself.

it's difficult to get the tone quite right here sometimes isn't it?

thanks again for your apology

I'm SO sorry I used the word smug! I don't think I meant it that way - I was pleased my births went the way they did as I felt that the way it all happened could have been a lot worse. I was advised to avoid an epidural if at all possible (due to back problems including the side effects of a previous lumbar puncture) and managed to do so - so I am pleased that this is how it happened. I suppose I said I was smug as this is the word a midwife used for me - I had delivered a 9lb12oz OP baby with syntocin with no epidural and she said 'you must feel very smug' - and I did - I had done it my way even though the odds were against me.
Bad choice of word perhaps. Whe I think about it I am so happy that I managed her birth that way as it is what I had always hoped for. I feel more of a sense of acheivment having delivered her with no epidural than I did about ds who was a totally 'textbook' delivery - because I felt I had ahceived something which was important to me.
I am really sorry if I upset anyone by my choice of words.

Lil, according to some of the references to research studies, on
this website ( Association of Radical Midwives!) pethidine caused nausea more than the newer drug meptid.

NQ - I really am a pethidine fan, I had it twice and it was great. I just cannot see what the fuss is about. Why are so many against it??? so the baby is a bit sleepy, but really that is not a big deal, and pethedine has no side effects for the mum (except sometimes it isn't strong enough). No aneathetists, no back ache, no stitches and no feeling sick. great!

My NCT counsellor was very negative about pethidine - so much so that I thought it certainly wasn't an option, and was really surprised to see all the posts below from people who had it.

She was relatively neutral about epidurals. I ended up having one, and it was a nightmare to get in in between contractions - took an hour and my dp got so furious he had to leave the room to avoid shouting at the anaesthetist. She was young and inexperienced, and god knows how much longer she would have taken if a more experienced one hadn't happened to stick her head round the door and offered to help.

Well I wouldn't blame you for being annoyed. All this fuss because one person referred to themselves as smug (which given their medical history to me is entirely justified) and yet you got called smug by someone else for just referring to your positive experience and that seems to be perfectly ok!!.

Oh BK, I didn't mean to suggest I was upset with you!. Phrased it badly but I was just pointing out that I was one who had only talked positively about my own experience and was still labelled "smug" and "superior". I am always being told I am mad to have given birth without pain relief and actually, an continuously told by two people I know I am mad not to have C-sections (which I find utterly baffling given my extreme good luck in having simple, straightforward deliveries) so I guess it is something I feel sensitive about.

ks, it was the lark, and I think Dives and Lazarus and Symphony No. 3 (I had a LONG labour!!)

hello bells

i have been wondering what to make of your message all day. i think you are annoyed or upset by my comments yesterday, and i'm at a bit of a loss to understand why.

i'm unhappy with a couple of posters on this thread who have described themselves as "smug" for not having epi's or c-sections. i find this choice of words provocative for the reasons i have described below and which i do not propose to repeat. i would have thought this was clear from my previous posts and as such i am surprised that you think my comments were in any way directed at you.

i'm not surprised you are unhappy with being labelled as "smug" or "superior" - you did not, unlike others, claim this description for yourself. wonderful that you are absolutely delighted with how things went for you - good for you!

however, i was not the one who made the comments you (understandably) object to, so again i am wondering why your post of 7.25am this morning is directed at me?

ime, we usually agree about things, and actually, i don't think this is an exception, so would be very unhappy to think you have been upset by comments of mine which were in no way aimed at you.

KS and musica, I DID listen to VW during labour ... hmmm, maybe that's why I needed the epidural, ventouse etc

croppy, I think we're basically saying the same thing, but the word "smug" hasn't helped this discussion at all and perpetuates this "myth" that intervention is 2nd best, something to feel ashamed of.

BTW, please don't think I'm attacking single mums - my mum was one!

But Bell2 didn't label herself and made no remark about anyone else and yet she got the treatment. Sorry, but given Susanmt's medical history which she clearly laid out, I do think she was entitled to feel smug about avoiding an epidural. I can imagine that in her circumstances, the thought of one would have been terrifying.

no need to label, susanmt did it herself:

"I think we should be allowed to be smug about the things we managed the way we wanted. "

My point is simply that I was very surprised to see that people on this thread who simply commented that they were very pleased with the outcome of their natural births were immediately labelled "smug" and "superior" for having said so.

Croppy, I wasn't talking about this thread particularly, but I hardly think it is controversial to say that you don't often hear good things about c-sections or epidurals, quite the contrary. The birth 'gurus' including Kitzinger and Odent etc etc definitely do more than imply that a birth without either is definitely a 'superior' event, yet that is far from always true, as some of the experiences on this thread shows. My point was that creating a baby is an incredibly experience. Birth IMO is only/primarily the way you get to 'meet' your baby and start being a mother/father. But by focussing on birth so much I think it is possible to lose sight of this. Women do feel 'failures' for having sections or epidurals and I personally believe that a lot of this is due to an overemphasis on birth itself and the growth of a 'natural birth' culture, which may have had important work to do in changing the way women used to be treated in hospital , but has also, IMO, had a negative influence in the way it encourages the denigration of other types of births. I refer to the very widespread sneering and condemnation of, say, Posh, for having two c-s, compared to the sanctification of, say, Kate Winslet for having a vaginal delivery. Yet I certainly see no evidence that divorced, smoking, ever-travelling Kate Winslet is a better mother than the clearly devoted Posh. I am not specificially critisising Kate Winslet here, she's probably a very loving and involved mother, but let's face it, poor old Posh gets so much flak for having sections, yet she seems to me to be providing a rather more stable home life for her kids. There is MUCH more to motherhood and making a baby than giving birth. I think it is terribly sad that so many women feel that the way they give birth makes them a failure as a woman or as a mother.

sorryks - I meant when you said 'I somehow doubt anyone has', did you mean, you doubted whether anyone listened to VW CDs in labour, or whether anyone listened to VW at all. Now I come to spell it out, it seems a rather minor point...I do quite like VW, but possibly not in labour.

Our midwife in ante-natal classes said to take a good book and a jigsaw, as it coule be quite boring....yeah, right!

couldn't agree with you more, and those same people visiting Mumsnet should also know that intervention of any kind isn't a failure - whether it was part of the gameplan or not.
I'm not building myself up for anything this time - either a VBAC or another c-section, just 'arming' myself with enough knowledge that I could cope with either.

I used to think I had 'failed' for having a emerg c/s but had a great result i.e. healthy baby.

This time, it's not really the 'achievement' thing at all, as I'm much wiser and less focused on the experience etc. (mad cackling laughter..)

What I do know is the blooming hassle of abdominal surgery and possiblility of adhesions, poor wound repair etc upon repeating them.

Sorry, but this is not at all relevant to pethidine, which is what the thread is about..I'll bow out just found another favourite thread.

I am really sorry you have had that experience Bundle. That view (that a C/S is something of a failure) isn't something I can relate to as of course beside the safe delivery of a baby, everything else pales into insignificance. I guess my concern is that I just want people looking at Mumsnet to see that natural childbirth IS the right choice for some people and something that they are happy they did.

Lol about the lovely Vaughan ks, I always snigger when I come across my plant sprayer that I dutifully packed in my hospital bag after reading it would help for dp to spray me with it during labour. Must say I was glad that I didn't have to rely on it when I ended up having a c section

no, of course I don't object to people talking positively about their birth experiences. but many women do not have a choice about mode of delivery ie when safety takes precedence over their wants/desires and a baby "needs" to be delivered quickly, like mine. And although I can't boast that I'm "glad" I had an emergency caesarean, it doesn't mean that the overall result wasn't a good one.
I've met women who've spoken very positively about their birth experiences and obviously felt 'sorry' about the way mine went - and yes, they looked down a little on births where there was a lot of intervention as some sort of lesser experience - that's like water off a duck's back to me, but for other more sensitive creatures it might make them feel as if they've 'failed' in some way and I don't think they should be made to feel that way. I'm not saying that has happened here, it's just an observation from my own experiences.