My dh just informed me that....

I appreciate that, I was thinking about those cases when everything seems to be well and something totally unexpected happens at the last minute like baby going into a difficult position like getting himself strangled with the cord, or finding out there's not enough space for the baby to come out naturally... I didn't know she was a skilled attendant which make the option of going solo safe for her, I just wonder how many people could go into this without being able to recognise a potential problem and then suffer from fatal consequences, that's all...

Thrid world countries also have the issue of lack of hygiene, malnourished mothers,....
For those of you who are interested in reading about doing it naturally (and believe me it can be done!) - there is Michel Odent's stuff and more "natural" publications like "The Mother" magazine or the www.birthlove.com website.
I have worked with quite a few mums who swore they'd get an epidural... they didn't (for various reasons) and could not believe they did it without any pain relief... if you feel secure in your labour (and that usually means that the birth partner you have chosen is in his/her own way making you feel secure/protected/ensures your privacy "like birthing behind a bush" you can handle even the most horrendous contractions (no one said it was always easy) and deliver without pushing.... unfortunaltely many MW don't even know that it is possible and are only to keen to get in with gas and air, pethidine/diamorphine or the epidural ("get a grip, there is no need to shout!".... I have seen that too !
Must get off line.....

Surely there's a difference between giving birth naturally, which Pupuce supports, and giving birth alone, which I think Bekkikay's dh proposes. Pupuce is a 'skilled attendant' who is able to spot when something is going wrong and help correct it to allow birth to take place. That's a whole different ball game to a malnourished woman labouring without support.

Most of the deaths in Indonesia are caused by anaemia in the mother. They don't need hi-tech stuff, they need someone skilled in diagnosing anaemia, and iron tablets, which are cheap and simple.

However painful it was I didn't considered it horrific, I tryied to go through it without anesthetics and those 12 hours with long contractions every three minutes made me ask for anesthesia but during the three minute space between them I found myself telling the midwife that I could still cope (while I could have scream murder while on them...).

No I have not but was very quiet the 2nd time around, it is all about birth physiology but allow me not to get into it tonight.... I need to get off line. I have witnessed a few very quiet (and indeed) natural births myself.... it doesn't have to be a horror scenario for everyone.

I do know women who have done it (unassisted) - this is not something I encourage BTW but it does exist... so does orgasm when birthing - which has been ridiculed on mumsnet before too.... shame that some can't see past their own experience to understand that there can be (for some) another way. BTW didn't perosnally experience the orgasm either

The maternal death rate in Indonesia is something like 235 per hundred thousand (although I have seen figures that estimate it as high as 650 per hundred thousand). Those women certainly aren't making any noise.

Maybe your dh would like to read this short article about the advantages of skilled attendants .

postcrossed again!!! but tell me, have you done it that way? how was it?

Yes and the fact that we think different doesn't mean that either one of us is wrong, I'm sure that for some people going behind a bush would could work wonders, as I'm sure that for many others it would have been a catastrophe, I just believe that if somebody decides to go solo she needs to ponder the consequences and be sure that there's someway to know if something is getting wrong and be able to realise on time to get help before is very late.

Unless I were a midwife (I am not) who can identify if something is getting wrong and is not part of 'normal' things that happen at childbirths, I would probably not risk it.

oops posts crossed

Hey - if we can't express a different opinion without some resorting to the "well I or my baby would have died...." then I'll shxx up - I was unaware that we all had to agree with Bekki..... thought mumsnet was more open minded

no intention to cause offense btw

lucky that nothing bad happened of course, that the baby didn't have so much a strain that he needed to be taken out as a mater of emergency because if he had been there for a couple of minutes more he would have died, but well, that's just my own case but, who knows maybe the problem was caused by the presence of midwife and DH in the room?

What do you mean by lucky?

Pupuce, may I also add a lucky labour to the list ?

Well, if I had tried that I would have died and so would my dd, but apart from that it sounds like a realy good idea!

I'm not going to comment on that....

pupuce.......you're mad

only joking of course.

Ask women who have unassisted childbirth (with no one else in the room) - they have very easy births.... on their own and usually very quiet.

Hey- call me mad (and I had 2 kids) I agree with your DH.... you need to read Michel Odent's book and you'll understand what he means.

What you do is when you are in labour grab hold of his testicles and squeeze them hard as long as each contraction lasts. Then tell him to do his breathing excercises and visualise himself somewhere safe and all the pain will go away. And if you need stitches grab his hand and bite it while they do it!

Nerdgirl, I very much agree, Bekky has to take advantage of the fact that men in these cultures worship mothernature and we as women are nearer to that figure than men, so yes, he should be kissing her feet now.

Bekky, please keep him awake and looking when you next have a childbirth, so he can realise about the strain related to it. DH was with me the 27 hours my labour last, and since then he respects me a bit more because he saw how horribly painful it can be, and got the whole image of baby going out before his eyes which he considered brutal, he was in shock after the thing finished and erm he left me there, afterwards, alone with the baby because giving birth had left him exhausted. Men will be men won't they?

PS... and tell your husband that I was very silent and IT DOESN'T HELP AT ALL (I'm silent all the time anyways, not because of my indian background but because I'm very shy..)

There was something on radio 4 awhile back that talked of pregnant women who wrote to thier unborn children because the chances of them dying in childbirth was so high.This was in the days before hospitals etc. It was quite a sad program.

Bekky, by any chance is your DH following the Lakota philosophy of something of the sort? nothing against it-as long people realise that we don't live rough in the prairies anymore nor do we die trying to catch some bufalos for dinner...-
Indian philosophies are great but we need not to forget the context!!!

By the way, I forgot to clarify that I'm not an asian indian but a very mesoamerican one who happens to love asian indian names