My dh just informed me that....

zebra - that's what my midwife said!

If I wasn't putting so much energy into pushing I would have hit her.

Well I have no idea if this is true or a joke, but -

"Traditionally, a father among the Huichol Indians would sit in the rafters above his labouring wife with a rope tied around his testicles. The wife would tug on the rope with every painful contraction so that they could both share the pain of bringing a new life into the world?"

Guess he could squat on the other side of the bush, with the rope passed underneath the bush?

Actually, I think that's a common feeling that BKay's DH has. My midwives said that I was putting too much energy into yelling and not enough into birthing the baby .... thing is, that's how I dealt with the pain. I realised that with my 2nd labour and the screamign worked with the contrax, if that makes sense.

Eddm - by the sounds of things yes! (Sorry BKay.)

Has it ever occurred (spelling?) to him that other people may be better informed on certain subjects? People who have actually given birth, for instance?! If your central heating broke down, would he insist that the plumber fixed it 'his' way?

A blackberry bush would be good for a quick snack during labour. Only in the autumn, obviously and it might be a bit too chilly then.

Message withdrawn

ROTFL!

Let alone Poison oak, Poison Ivy, Japanese Knotweed or nettles -- well, at least you could fry up the placenta & the nettles together for a tasy high-in-iron snack afterwards.

Just how hygenic is it behind a bush? And I suggest you choose your bush carefully - no holly or hawthorn!

Precisely!
BKay: does your DH think animals can do it, so why can't people? He obviously hasn't seen enough episodes of Animal Hospital, or ever read a James Herriot book, or ever looked into the mortality rates among pregnant guinea pigs (frightfully high).

You try giving birth behind a bush with placenta praevia and see how long you last...

Heya B'Kay:
I think HMB beat me to it. All I really know, and it convinces me, is that childbirth is still the leading cause of death in the developing world among women of child-bearing ages. I'm sure that a lot could be done to make childbirth safer in the developing world without going the high intervention route the West is into.... but it's undoubtedly true that childbirth is very very tough, and potentially dangerous for most of us. I would not like to go through it without somebody on hand who is more experienced in these things than me.

In the Homebirth community I encounter women who are adament fans of unassisted childbirth, even unassisted pregnancy, too. A few of these women already have 8+ kids and they are willing to assume responsibility for all the risks, so although I don't like it, you can't say they don't know what childbirth is like and they aren't shifting blame to anyone else if things go wrong. BUT... deep in my heart, I still feel it's mad. Giving birth is overwhelming; It's an unusual woman who can think straight through it.

Well, apparently I shouted 'f**k" repeatedly for about 7 hours so your husband would hate me! Wasn't aware of it at the time, just how my body and mind reacted to labour... but it seems to have helped because I got through on gas and air. I'm not implying labours that require more intervention/pain relief are somehow 'worse', just that's how it worked for me. Next time, if there is one, who knows?

Re some statistics, I found these on a website supporting India women in the right for safe motherhood. I have seen similar statistcs elsewhere and have no reason to doubt them.

Please realise that these are statistic for women who have a range of other problems rising out of ther poverty and I am not saying these statistics would be the same in the UK if we all went for non-medical delivery. But the stats do support that large numbers of deaths do occur cause by conditions that have nothing to do with poor nutrition, and everything to do with not having a trained birth attendent and access to furter help eg blood transfusions.

'Every minute, one woman somewhere in the world dies from a complication related to pregnancy or childbirth. This is almost 600,000 women a year, worldwide. Ninety-nine percent of these deaths occur in developing countries (1,2). In India, one woman dies every five minutes from a pregnancy-related cause.
For every three deaths of women in their reproductive years in some developing countries, one is the result of complications from pregnancy and childbirth.15 percent of deaths of women in the reproductive age in India are maternal deaths.
Complications related to pregnancy, childbirth and complications arising out of unsafe abortion are leading causes of death in adolescent girls (3). In India, 50 percent of maternal deaths of girls in the 15-19 years age group are due to unsafe complications arising out of unsafe abortion(7).

The underlying causes for maternal mortality are poor health and nutrition, lack of physical access to healthcare (including transportation and finances), medical causes and socio cultural factors that obstruct and underplay the importance of healthcare for women.

These contribute to the Four Delays:
Delay in identifying a complication; delay in making a decision to seek treatment; delay in getting the woman to the healthcare center; delay in receiving quality treatment.(3)

Over 80 percent of maternal deaths in India, as elsewhere in the world, are due to six medical causes: hemorrhage, eclampsia, obstructed labor, sepsis, complications arising due to unsafe abortion and pre-existing conditions such as anemia and malaria. All of these can be treated in a hospital or First Referral Unit that has emergency facilities for obstetric care and skilled medical personnel.(6)'

I have not posted the whole article, those who are interested go to www.whiteribbonalliance-india.org/factsandfigures.htm

And I do recognise that child birth for women in the developed world is not the same. I fully accept that many women have low intervention/no intervention deliveries. But for those of us that develop compications, or have a dangerous presentation (ds was a very large footling breach) all the positive thinking in the world wouldn't have mattered. Some of us need intervention and this is part of the reason for the difference between developed and developing country statistics. To deny this is to deny reality.

Oh, and if you dh is such a fan of the plaines indians are you going to tell him that he will have to pass up on his car? Plains indians did an excellent job of moving round vast areas of North America using horses and 'sled' type arrangements pulled behing the horses. They never invented the wheel, didn't need them. So he is going to give up his car isn't he? The Plains Indians were far more envionomentaly friendly and 'natural'

As an aside a fiend of mine is a midwife. She is very 'pro' home births, very keen on minimal intervention, had 2 home births herself. She has only witnessed one silent birth. The woman was a member of the Plymouth Breatheren. They take the bibly literaly and veiw the pain of childbirth as Gods punishment on Eve for tempting Adam. So the women try not to cry out....nice!

I don't doubt for one minute that other women have easier labours than I did. My best friend had a 100% medication free delivery with her first child and I have several friends who have had uncomplicated home deliveries.

However I am not resorting to telling you that I would have died without medical intervention. It is the plain and simple bald truth! In the 'natural' world I should have died, because my body is not well suited to delivery.....natural selection would dicatate that women like me should be got away with! (: ) not that I'm say I think that is a good idea)

At the turn of the 19th centuary in Britain, basic hygine methods were in place and giving birth was still 4 times more dangerous than being a miner (the most dangerous job at the time).

Mother nature can be fine, but some of us needed a better midwife! I accept your position from your point of view. I don't think that I am out of order for pointing out mine am I?

Having said that, the midwives were GREAT, so I just went home as soon as I was permited to and everything was fine.

lovely image there Chandra!

Pupuce, I come from a third world country and eventhough I assume you don't want to generalise the issue of higyene is not necessarily worse than at England... I am not saying that all hospitals in England are in bad condition but was rather shocked to see that the doctor who had to take my child out at the last moment was wearing gloves but something fall to the floor and she was looking for it with her hands placed ON THE FLOOR, she just found what she lost and continued with me without changing his gloves, and... I found worms in ths shower of the post delivery room, curiously I have also found them in another hospital 30 miles from home when my DS had to had an operation, so first world doesn't always mean cleaner...

Actually, before I had DS1, and having heard about the horrors of intervention, I was tempted to go it alone when labour began. I thought I'd just stay in the bath at home until the last possible moment, as I'd read that water and relaxation lessened the pain.
Hahahahahahahahaha.

Did you hear that, willow2? We should have just gone behind a bush and shut the f* up and we'd have been fine!!!!!!!!!

I appreciate that, I was thinking about those cases when everything seems to be well and something totally unexpected happens at the last minute like baby going into a difficult position like getting himself strangled with the cord, or finding out there's not enough space for the baby to come out naturally... I didn't know she was a skilled attendant which make the option of going solo safe for her, I just wonder how many people could go into this without being able to recognise a potential problem and then suffer from fatal consequences, that's all...