10.30-10.45pm bedtime for DD11.

My DD is autistic and waiting for adhd assessment. She’s 9 and in Y5. She’s never asleep before 10pm and is always awake before 6.30am. She’s been like this ever since she was born. As a tiny newborn baby she slept ok at night but never ever had more than two 30-40 min naps a day. When they consolidated it went down to one 70 min nap. That’s the biggest break we ever got.

I always insist on her being in bed reading or listening to an audiobook by 8.30. I think that’s the best you can do. You cannot force a child to have more sleep if they really don’t need it. Now ans again my DD will suddenly get exhausted and choose to go to bed early. She’s still always up and about early though.

This little girl was the same barely 2-4 hrs a night and then falling asleep on her desk at school so it’s worked for her but agree not everyone is the same.

It can have long term side effects, so it needs to be carefully considered (my son takes melatonin because he was only sleeping 2-3 hours a night without it, but had he been getting 8 hours the risk vs benefit analysis would have been different).

My probably NT 10 year old has lights out for 10 on weekdays and is up by 6 or so naturally. He never needed loads of sleep and never has any issues with a late one.

My 13 year old ND daughter takes ages to fall asleep. No idea when she’s actually asleep but it’s lights out around 10 or so. Later on dance nights. She needs an alarm to get up for 630.

I have 3 dc with varying sleep issues due to ASD & ADHD.
People responding with their NT bedtime is absolutely irrelevant.

Odd as it sounds, we stopping evening showers definitely helped as it didn't relax my dc, quite the opposite.
We use lavender, white noise, relaxation apps etc.

Sometimes ultimately I have to leave them to settle themselves as I need to go to bed

Why do they need to go to bed so early at weekends and holidays? Do they get up at 7:30 every day?

No ND that we’re aware of but me and DS are natural night owls and getting up the same time at the weekend would make me shattered.

My friends daughter is on melatonin and it’s been a game changer
she was reluctant but it’s been much better for everyone
don’t write it off I’d be pushing for it
for her
for you
for your family

Because drugging your kids should be an absolute last resort

My autistic DD (age 14) is the same. Melatonin has been amazing.

She listens to audio books on a Yoto Mini on the evenings she doesn’t take it.

Ds11 has ASD and ADHD (medicated with Elvanse). He goes to bed between 8.30 and 9pm most days. Is up at 6.30/7am for school. He needs 10 hours sleep ideally. He listens to thunderstorm sounds on his Alexa to help him sleep and generally sleeps like the dead. I go to bed shortly after him and read for an hour. My light is usually out by 10.30pm. I’m also on Elvanse for ADHD and have autism.

Yes way too late. 10pm asleep at the latest. 9pm preferably.

It’s worth remembering too that melatonin isn’t an entirely benign option. My youngest takes it, but we did weigh up the benefits vs the down sides. It can have long term impacts (and it also reduces in effectiveness after a while). So the OP is being sensible in trying to figure out whether it’s something that is actually needed.

My DC7 has an ASD diagnosis and we suspect adhd as well but getting her to sleep or stay
asleep used to be difficult, till she was 6, she barely slept for more than 8 hours, if she goes to bed early, she wakes up too early etc.
I started giving her magnesium, the proper one and it’s made such a difference. For a year now, she goes to bed (with night light ) without needing someone in her room and she’s asleep by 9:30 latest and she sleeps till 6:30 or 7 most days. I think you should investigate magnesium if you haven’t been giving it before.

With melatonin ds gets 6-7 hours sleep a night normally broken. The specialists he is under are happy with this as he can generally function.

without melatonin he gets 2 hours at a push.

like with many things sleep norms don’t work for those who are neurodivergent!

You’ve obviously never suffered sleep problems yourself or raised children who are ND or have had other issues including bereavement, anxiety, health problems or neurodiversity. I am and I have

my mum tried the early bedtime and punishments for me, didn’t work, I simply could not sleep, she even (and this is awful) locked me in my room and took away every single book and distraction in the effort to make me sleep. Didn’t work, it just made me very distressed. Then she tried the as long as I’m in bed and quiet, gave me my books back and a radio which worked. Still wasn’t falling asleep at 9 but I was able to fall asleep at my natural time which was around 11 or 12, sometimes later. I probably needed more sleep as a teen but you simply cannot make anyone fall asleep unless their body and mind lets them.

It’s Nothing to do with raising sensible children. I have 4 sensible children too..3 out of the 4 have had sleep issues since young children. No amount of gentle, regular, quiet, routine driven bedtimes changed this and goodness me did I try.

like me they have adhd and asd

We compromised in bed at 10pm and cam listen to an audiobook and sit up and do puzzle book or colour. As tbh thats my bedtime routine. Im bed with audiobook and suduko

We did use melatonin from adhd/asd dr as one dc kept falling asleep in class as he couldn't switch off at night

I belive there have been some studies that some ND people.produce lass melatonin naturally

DS1 (10) year 6 goes to sleep between 10-10.30. He's also up at 7.

Unlike your DD though he doesn't seem wired at bedtime, we watch TV together, then he goes to bed and falls asleep within 5mins of either reading or listening to a yoto player.

A few people have suggested ADHD for DS1 (hyperactive type) but at the moment it's well managed by doing a sport 7 days a week.

Kids magnesium supplements are meant to be good for sleep...we buy them occasionally (I'm not sure they worked but they are definitely good for sore muscles)

My just turned 12 year old goes to bed a 10.30 and a bit later on weekends when he can have a lie in.
He’s never needed much sleep (like DH) and Just isn’t tired enough to go to bed earlier.
If I’m tired and need an early night he’s more than capable of switching off at 10.30 and putting himself to bed. DH is usually awake somewhere in the house anyway.

That’s not true.
My 2 older children need a lot of sleep, more than the average. My 13 year old is usually asleep by 8.30pm.
Some children need more than average, some less than the average. There is a normal range… some will be at the top end of that, some at the bottom. My youngest (aged 7 and ND) is at the bottom end. My eldest 2 are at the top.

Also WSS.

In ND people, melatonin is naturally reduced causing difficulty falling asleep, melatonin will help with this for school nights

Apparently my reply has been hidden. I don't get commission, honest!
We used melatonin for quite a while but it only made him sleep about half an hour earlier. The paediatrician was happy with his sleep length - 8-9 hours as luckily his school isn't far.

I have a similar DS though he's a bit older, but it's been like this for a few years.
He's resting at least, we reckon, but we found that the ADHD Dude bedtime routine really helped. It's a paid parenting coach service but if you just watch the bedtime webinar you could always cancel.

why dont you want to try melatonin? it’s apparently brilliant. im thinking of trying it myself!