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Friend's dog bit a child, whose fault?

287 replies

karrabee · Yesterday 09:43

Dog was on a lead, probably 1.5 metres ahead. Family of 2 adults and 2 children walking past in opposite direction. Children probably 4 and 8? As they walked past the younger girl darted towards the dog and put her hand on his head (flat palm almost like she was hitting him but I think she was trying to pat him on the head) and he nipped her. We were passing each other on a path in a park so were quite close already. Had zero time to do anything as from her walking past to touching him happened in about 1.5 seconds. We had no interaction with the other family prior to this. Dog has never bitten before, we think he just got a fright from the girl, but the family went mad and started threatening to call the police saying we have a dangerous dog (he's am old staffy who has never bitten once and we were so shocked that he even nipped her as he is extremely gentle!). Family followed us round the park and kept shouting 'we know where you live, police are going to be well aware of you'. The girl wasn't injured, skin wasn't broken, but she was obviously scared. Surely this is the fault of the family for not teaching their children not to touch dogs? I don't have a dog so haven't really had to think about it before, but my son knows not to touch dogs without confirming with the owner that they're friendly. It is drilled into him!

OP posts:
chirrupybird · Yesterday 14:30

Cooshawn · Yesterday 14:26

A couple of weeks ago I had to physically grab a small child that was hurtling towards my friend's dog. The dog was on a short lead with no slack as she'd pulled her in on the opposite side. The dog doesn't like children, and my friend is very proactive in managing that. But this child was trying to run around the other side to get to the dog.

Meanwhile the adults with the child (who we'd called out to) were just ambling along chatting amongst themselves, completely unaware of what the child was doing or how far ahead they were.

My friend's dog hasn't bitten a child, she's proactive because she wants to avoid her dog being stressed.

But if her dog, which was completely under control, had snapped at that child (who had no business whatsoever being so close) she'd have been at fault?

Yes, she needs to train her dog a dog that 'doesn't like' children is a walking time bomb get it a muzzle if it is a danger to children.

pokewomans · Yesterday 14:29

takealettermsjones · Yesterday 09:53

I think it's on all the adults to do better - the parent should not have let the child touch the dog, and the dog owner should have had the dog closer than 1.5m when passing young children.

this

MellowSubmarine · Yesterday 14:29

Bit of both.

I have a four year old and when passing dogs I do make sure she’s near me - not because she’d ever touch a dog, she doesn’t like them, but because I don’t know what a strange dog is going to do. But I would appreciate it if dog owners had the same curtesy to bring their dogs nearer - if it’s a path and the dog is 1.5m away on a lead, politeness would be to bring it nearer I think. I know you’ve said the path wasn’t narrow but you have said you were all “quite close”.

chirrupybird · Yesterday 14:27

babyproblems · Yesterday 14:24

The parents of the child are absolutely at fault.

The dog owner has zero responsibility here in this case; the parents are completely accountable imo. Children should never approach dogs!

They were passing each other on a path, the child didn't run up to the dog, the dog owner could easily have kept the dog away from the child and they should have.

Cooshawn · Yesterday 14:26

A couple of weeks ago I had to physically grab a small child that was hurtling towards my friend's dog. The dog was on a short lead with no slack as she'd pulled her in on the opposite side. The dog doesn't like children, and my friend is very proactive in managing that. But this child was trying to run around the other side to get to the dog.

Meanwhile the adults with the child (who we'd called out to) were just ambling along chatting amongst themselves, completely unaware of what the child was doing or how far ahead they were.

My friend's dog hasn't bitten a child, she's proactive because she wants to avoid her dog being stressed.

But if her dog, which was completely under control, had snapped at that child (who had no business whatsoever being so close) she'd have been at fault?

babyproblems · Yesterday 14:24

The parents of the child are absolutely at fault.

The dog owner has zero responsibility here in this case; the parents are completely accountable imo. Children should never approach dogs!

chirrupybird · Yesterday 14:24

Notasbigasithink · Yesterday 14:17

Hopefully the child has learnt a very valuable lesson!

I hope the dog owner has, their dog is not safe around children. No dog should be able to reach a small child particularly in a park where children may be running around excited and not on the look out for a dog that might bite. Keep dogs under control, children come before dogs.

AcquadiP · Yesterday 14:24

Thank goodness it was a nip and not a bite!

Most old dogs have cataracts which impair their vision so this is most likely what caused the nip. To protect the dog I wouldn't allow any stranger to stroke the dog after this incident.

I've always been in two minds about children stroking my dogs. If they're calm and sensible I've shown them how to extend their hand with the palm facing upwards as an inoffensive greeting. If the child has been overly excited I've said "no, sorry" and continued walking.

Lifeloong · Yesterday 14:22

It’s the dog owner’s fault, always.

beaglescurleduplikebagels · Yesterday 14:20

Ethelspagetti · Yesterday 14:10

It’s the child’s parents fault. You cannot go around patting dogs on the head, same for cats! Some bite, mine does and I have to tell children not to touch him all of the time! The dog owner kept his in a lead and away from people, he did nothing wrong.

If the owner had "kept it on a lead and away from people" then a small child wouldn't have been bitten 🙄

RikthePoet · Yesterday 14:20

maggisimpson · Yesterday 13:51

If the girl just ran past and the dog nipped her, that would be totally the dog/owners fault and unacceptable.
But the girl patted the dog's head.
Surely rule number 1 with children is you teach them not to touch strange dogs without asking?
Teach your children that animals might nip you if you suddenly grab or pat them - doesn't matter if it's a dog, cat, squirrel, duck.

Maybe the parents did teach the child not to approach dogs. Maybe they didn't. Irrelevant.

Dog owners shouldn't allow their dogs to bite humans in public spaces. Full stop.

Pull the dog closer. Move the dog away. If your dog is going to bite a child that pats its head, make sure your dog can't do that.

MassiveOvaryaction · Yesterday 14:19

Ethelspagetti · Yesterday 14:10

It’s the child’s parents fault. You cannot go around patting dogs on the head, same for cats! Some bite, mine does and I have to tell children not to touch him all of the time! The dog owner kept his in a lead and away from people, he did nothing wrong.

If the dog owner kept the dog away from people, how was it able to bite the child? Hmm

dustabsorber · Yesterday 14:19

he is extremely gentle!) They all are until they aren't. And this one has proved that he isn't.

An average human bite force is roughly 162 PSI, meaning a Staffie's bite of 300 PSI is about twice as powerful. Muzzle in future?

Notasbigasithink · Yesterday 14:17

karrabee · Yesterday 09:43

Dog was on a lead, probably 1.5 metres ahead. Family of 2 adults and 2 children walking past in opposite direction. Children probably 4 and 8? As they walked past the younger girl darted towards the dog and put her hand on his head (flat palm almost like she was hitting him but I think she was trying to pat him on the head) and he nipped her. We were passing each other on a path in a park so were quite close already. Had zero time to do anything as from her walking past to touching him happened in about 1.5 seconds. We had no interaction with the other family prior to this. Dog has never bitten before, we think he just got a fright from the girl, but the family went mad and started threatening to call the police saying we have a dangerous dog (he's am old staffy who has never bitten once and we were so shocked that he even nipped her as he is extremely gentle!). Family followed us round the park and kept shouting 'we know where you live, police are going to be well aware of you'. The girl wasn't injured, skin wasn't broken, but she was obviously scared. Surely this is the fault of the family for not teaching their children not to touch dogs? I don't have a dog so haven't really had to think about it before, but my son knows not to touch dogs without confirming with the owner that they're friendly. It is drilled into him!

Hopefully the child has learnt a very valuable lesson!

MassiveOvaryaction · Yesterday 14:17

Child should have been taught not to touch a strange dog without asking, but equally if people were approaching dog should be to heel, not lolloping ahead imo.

beaglescurleduplikebagels · Yesterday 14:16

chirrupybird · Yesterday 14:12

The dog owner should keep their dog out of touching distance of children, a family should be able to walk in a park without risking their children being bitten by a dog. The dog is the interloper in that scenario not the child.

Absolutely. The number of children blaming a small child here is ridiculous.

Dogs have to be under control - it's the law. Under control means they cannot bite a child.

stichguru · Yesterday 14:16

Your friend definately isn't a responsible dog walker, but the child's parents aren't responsible parents either. Both the parents and the owner should have been near enough to the child and the dog to stop this interaction before it happened. Neither of them were. Both are very lazy and should be being a parent and a dog owner much better than they are.

dustabsorber · Yesterday 14:15

What if the child was younger or non-verbal, so it would be impossible to teach it to not go up to dogs? Whose fault then? Should small children be on leads in case they go up to dogs and hug them? I find for the plaintiff and award damages against the dog owner.

concertinacornflake · Yesterday 14:15

SoVeryVeryBored · Yesterday 14:10

You cannot say it is both subjective for the person experiencing the situation and sebject to reasonableness. Lots of people are hysterical about dogs and their mere presence in the same room apparently puts them in fear. A test of reasonableness in law (although different for different types of case) generally requires the court to consider what a reasonable person in possession of the facts would/could have thought in the situation- those things are often not the same.

Edited

If it was just the fear of danger then reasonableness would apply.

If a bite has happened, then clearly it isn't a matter of opinion anymore - a bite has occured.

beaglescurleduplikebagels · Yesterday 14:15

concertinacornflake · Yesterday 14:13

Thank you for this clear description of what should happen.

This is what 'under control' means - you as owner/walker are taking charge.

You are welcome! I actually had a child come to meet one of the dogs I was walking today. His mum asked permission, I was then able to get the dog (still a youngster) to sit calmly and under control (as he still likes to jump) and the little boy came over and listened and said hello.

It was a lovely interaction and the little boy was grinning from ear to ear. It's so easy as a dog owner (or walker) to keep your dog under control and yet so many don't seem to bother.

concertinacornflake · Yesterday 14:13

beaglescurleduplikebagels · Yesterday 14:10

The dog owner is at fault.

I walk dogs for a living and I always, always call them to my side and have them stop and wait when someone passes - especially if that someone is a child. Because children are unpredictable and no matter how often parents drill into them that they need to ask, they will inevitably forget occasionally and ultimately it's the dog who is going to suffer in the long-run.

Those long-leads should be banned IMO. They are a nightmare and so incredibly dangerous.

Thank you for this clear description of what should happen.

This is what 'under control' means - you as owner/walker are taking charge.

chirrupybird · Yesterday 14:12

The dog owner should keep their dog out of touching distance of children, a family should be able to walk in a park without risking their children being bitten by a dog. The dog is the interloper in that scenario not the child.

Megifer · Yesterday 14:12

DC parents fault 100%. They need to teach their DC you dont go up to random dogs. Idiots.

Nottodaty · Yesterday 14:11

I have a well behaved spaniel.

They are still a dog. People often see the dog and I notice don’t seem to control either there dog or child. Allow them to run up to her. How would you react as a human if an unknown person just ran up to you without invite.

She walks to heel, has never nipped anyone BUT I don’t know whether if she was startled or felt she was going to be hurt how she would react. It needs a joint effort from both parties.

Ironically when we go out with my friends extremely soft Rottweiler who is always on a short lead …other dog owners and parents seem to actually parent or recall there dogs and children away from him (he just wants to be everyone best friend)

SoVeryVeryBored · Yesterday 14:10

ThePeppyOpalScroller · Yesterday 13:23

No. You need to read the law on this one. It's subjective for the person making the complaint. The question is one or reasonableness. Would a reasonable person believer under the circumstances that the dog was dangerous. Noting to do with the dog being on a lead.

You cannot say it is both subjective for the person experiencing the situation and sebject to reasonableness. Lots of people are hysterical about dogs and their mere presence in the same room apparently puts them in fear. A test of reasonableness in law (although different for different types of case) generally requires the court to consider what a reasonable person in possession of the facts would/could have thought in the situation- those things are often not the same.