Not selling alcohol at football is not "discrimination"

I don't like the conflation of legal categories with what is and isn't descrimination in a logical sense. You can descriminate against any group, we just have legal protections for some specific groups, for obvious reasons, but that doesn't mean that it's impossible to descriminate against a group that isn't on the list. Just that it won't be classed so legally.

That being said... If there is evidence that football fans are behaving worse when drunk than fans of other sports/events, then removing alacahol is a logical and sensible consequence. Their right to drink doesn't triumph others rights to safety etc.

I’m not sure that he is comparing it to discrimination against those who are discriminated against because of protected characteristics. But people are treated differently due to the sport they support. I read it as that was what he was referring to. As a football fan, they way I’ve been treated in the past based on this hasn’t been great at times.

But it is discrimination. Protected characteristics are a legal technically. The word discrimination has meaning within and
beyond that context. Here it is used in the general sense correctly.

Just part of his working class, man of the people schtick. Anybody who spectates at football and other sports in the UK can see that football fans are the most thuggish, so should totally be treated differently than, say, fans at Wimbledon or Twickenham.

On the one hand, yeah football fans aren’t a protected characteristic and it’s not illegal discrimination under the Equality Act. But “discrimination” isn’t only a legal term. It can also be used just to mean treating similar people or situations differently without a good reason.
The “minimises real discrimination” bit is a stretch too. Moaning about not getting a pint at the match doesn’t erase racism or sexism. It’s not a zero-sum thing.

For info in many countries (including many in Europe) it's possible to take a beer/alcoholic drink to your seat, or even get a drink (including beers) from the vendors who roam the aisle per match and during half time.

That doesn't seem to result in widespread problems with drunken fans....

You can drink alcohol at many other sports, including rugby, and cricket. But not at football.

How is that not discrimination to football supporters?

There is definitely an argument that football gets used as a stage for thugs, people who would fight because they want too, it was also well known that even in the 80s lots of thugs would travel to the towns where their team was playing - but not actually go to the games - hence football was used as a stage!
And not affected by the alcohol ban.

The ban on alcohol in the stands comes from a time when hooligan trouble was a regular feature at matches, that's pretty much ancient history now with changes in social attitudes and lower tolerance of poor behaviour.

Most (all?) clubs sell alcohol in the ground so people can get drunk and troublesome if they want to, so the ban doesn't make much difference in practice, it's just not much of an issue now.

That said, I don't think the ban should be lifted, people sloshing drinks around in cramped seating areas are a pain. It's just as bad at concerts when you get soaked by idiots carrying more plastic glasses than they can manage while they 'sorry' to everyone they shower with beer as they squirm past.

I’ve been thinking about this for a few hours now and it’s quite a fascinating subject.

the background of the law against drinking in stands is routed in a response to hooliganism. Is that appropriate now? There are still old fashioned ideas about football fans but as far as I know no current evidence that they can’t drink in stands vs cricket or rugby fans

So do you think that instead it should be extended to all venues?

The vendor system they use locally generally avoids the sloshed drink problem - beer is brought to you, you're not barging through crowds with it...it also acts as a bit of a limiter because the vendors aren't omni-present.

I've sat through a few European equivalents of top Prem matches and not seen probs, and that includes matches involving teams with a supposedly notorious Ultra element of fans.

Since the Ultras self identify they get fenced in and policed/monitored...the other 90% plus of the crowd can enjoy a drink (if they feel like it) and the match.

Ive been to Madrid football stadium

There are sellers that have beer barrels on their backs & serve beer in plastic glasses at your seat

It also goes back to a time of stadiums which were predominantly standing.
They are now all seated.

Scotland doesn't sell drink in the grounds, unless your in a hospitality box, using some weird get around rules attached to that.

But its also known fans will fill up in the pubs before the games. So maybe it will encourage more responsible drinking if its no longer banned.

Also plenty of places to buy beer before the matches

It also goes back to a time of stadiums which were predominantly standing.
They are now all seated.

Not now, some teams have 'safe standing' seating. For example, this is from Molineux (Wolverhampton)

@notimagain
I experienced this in Rome at a Lazio V German team i cannot remember. It was great to enjoy a pint or two whilst enjoying the game. However, the very lively German team supporters were pretty penned into their corner and flanked on all sides by security.

I feel there's plenty of booze available before and after a match so I dont think its discrimination until everyone can learn to behave themselves.
We should review these laws for sure, as times change, but sadly it's always a minority who make life tricky for the majority.

In a crowded stadium, people getting wild and maybe drunk is far harder to police than in a wide open space. Scared people have nowhere to run and trouble can escalate fast.

I'm watching this issue with interest. My family enjoy attending local footie matches. The last thing I need is them getting swept up in a drunken brawl. Or being unable to leave a stadium fast enough.

I support a women's team. They have standing area. And you can take alcohol into the stands/seats. They just don't serve it while the game is on.

You are arguing legal technicalities in what is, after all, a political discussion.

YABU.

Exactly this. Alcohol in that mix of people is never going to be plain sailing, especially the rougher clubs with strong established firms. It’s going to shift football from being family friendly to a day time piss up.

@Nutmuncher

especially the rougher clubs with strong established firms.

Well that's pretty much what the Ultras are that have been attached to some European clubs for years...and yet generally European police/stewarding manages to handle them in the grounds and also allow the majority of fans to drink some alcohol if they want to..

The first time you attended those sort of matches as a Brit used to the UK rules it can come as a bit of a shock, "Beer and football....the world will end"...but usually the worse you suffer is a severe case of tinnitus from all the banging of drums that the Ultras insist on inflicting.on everyone.

It’s discrimination because those rules (which as you say, may be sensible) don’t apply to other professional sports

You two are the discrimination he’s talking about.

I agree with you @KassandraOfSparta

So does my husband. He’s a season ticket holder who enjoys a pint pre match and at half time. No need for people to have access to buying alcohol all throughout the game though. It was banned from being sold during matches for a reason. Better behaviour from fans if they aren’t drinking loads for hours.

He's a compete plank.