25 Years on from the biggest terrorist attack and Iran still funding proxies

Then you can't read. Not my problem.

Report away.

Neither Iran, Hamas or Hezbollah are terrorists. They are fighting against forces that are doing a lot of harm to their own people. Freedom fighters.

Supporting Hamas and Hezbollah is illegal. Hamas murdered raped and killed civilians, Hezbollah are dedicated to wiping out an entire country.

Oh come ON! I have no time for Trump or Netanyahu but how can you say that Hamas are not terrorists, when they kidnapped, raped and murdered hundreds of innocent civilians? (And no, that DOESN'T excuse what Netanyahu et al have done to Gaza.)

Iran are not themselves terrorists, but they fund terrorism, and are a brutal regime to their own people. (And, no, that DOESN'T excuse Trump's war,)

You just posted this, quote " Surely you have read something of the aims of religious islamist extremists --- kill infidels, as in non believers and spread their extremist version of Islam. "

But this is what I asked : "When you say they hate the freedoms in the west, and want to destroy it, can you explain why ?"

And you have not explained why. You are basically saying, "google it", or "do your own research."

You then post what looks likes to be a US DHS summary of links to risks, but nothing in that summary covers the proposition in the post I was replying to. This

" REMEMBERthemALL · Yesterday 02:25
These same Islamic terrorists still have the same aim to destroy the West.
Yes they do. They hate the freedom we enjoy. We can speak out. Don't have to bow down to extremist doctrine. They hate that we will not be controlled, as they control so many, in their various areas of operation."

Instead, the list you give has a list of organizations that are separate and have different aims. The only thing they have in common is that they share the same religious base. There is a lot of conflation and lumping together going on here, with a giant leap to a conclusion that is in no way proven.

For example. your cut and paste mentions the Pakistan TTP. But their thing is region specific. Because it is tribal, against the Pakistan Government. Their aims are specific. Yet they are lumped into the " they hate the west" thing, as if they are about to bomb Aberdeen train station, because "they hate western freedoms". But that is simply not the case. The TTP have a specific regional cause. They are not bombing Pakistan yelling " The whole world should be Islamic".

This is why I asked what I did. Why do they hate the west etc, as that poster claimed.

We really should have learned from the second Iraq war. When Bush lumped Saddam Hussein in with Bin Laden "as hating the west". Because those two people I actually strongly disliked each other. And as other posters have said, Bin Laden was aligned with the religion in Saudi Arabia.

As @MrsBennetsPoorNervesAreBack posted above :"Unfortunately for them, it looks like Trump might get there first."

That is very true IMO. And we see it when Trump does this conflation and concludes THEY HATE THE WEST, too many people are just parroting that instead of asking him to explain it. Indeed, his response to anyone questioning it is for him to say it is ones PATRIOTIC DUTY to believe it. That all Islam hates the west. Vance is worse, he goes on about the great replacement. But no problem they say. They claim to be able to fix it. Just vote for them. And give them enough votes, and they will sort it so the Non Patriots won't be able to vote.

Why immediately jump to change the subject from Iran funding proxies? That is what the thread is about. There are other anti US/anti Trump threads if you want to talk about that.

We do enjoy democratic privileges here in the UK that Iranians don't.

For example, easy cheap access to the internet and the freedom to criticise our government as much as we want without fear of violent retribution.

Mumsnet is a UK site and in the UK Hamas and Hezbollah are terrorist organisations not "freedom fighters".

The UK government have also designated the IRGC as a national security threat and banned support for the organization

the comment was in reply to an ignorant comment that just didn’t make sense to the context of what was written

People have done research on this, organisations like al-qaeda tailored it’s messaging depending on who the audience was. For western audiences it was about anti-colonialism and anit-imperialism for arab audiences it was often explicitly religious and ideological, their target by the way were often sitting arab govenments and leaders. Not for democracy btw, but for religious leadership like a caliph. And please don’t forget these extremists will happily oppress women and minorities all day long. They also seem to kill A LOT of muslims on their way to fight the americans and Israelis. Many arab countries have suffered from internal sectarian terrorism.

Would also point to the pro hezbollah and pro hamas lot that the polling in Lebanon suggests that the majority of Lebanese want Hezbollah to disarm and the majority of Gazans wouldn’t vote for Hamas in a poll.

On Hamas theres a big hoo ha in Gaza at the moment because they abducted two women who are rleated to someone they are looking for and they started bloody shooting Gazans as soon as the ceasefire was announced.

So they may be freedom fighters in your eyes, but for the poor bastards how have to love with them they are just causing chaos.

Oh yeah and Yemen, millions FLED from areas the Houthis took over, they are currently using child soldiers.

So support these grouos all you want but don’t delude yourself into thinking the people they claim to represent actually want them.

You can say you are making it simple for me all you want. That does not mean you are answering the question.

What you are actually doing is conflating and concluding with no evidence, as I explained in my post. See here, you just said ; quote " Compare the freedom of women in the west to the restrictions on women in say Afghanistan etc. There is no comparison. As I said they love to have their extremist doctrine spread throughout the world. The ideology wants to spread, kill infidels and spread radical islam."

Yes, the Taliban treat women in Afghanistan really bad. I was reading on Sky earlier how being pregnant can be a death sentence. But how do you get from that to "The ideology wants to spread, kill infidels and spread radical islam." ?

Where are the steps in between with your logic ? I probably am too simple to understand how you get from one to the other. To the implied extent that is, that the Afghan Taliban are a danger to the west.

That is also the bit many politicians miss out too. The middle bit of logic.

Yes. My web is restricted.

You first link opens ok. And it has this

"Islamist extremism is based on the conviction that the world religion of Islam is not only a personal or private affair, but that it should also rule social life and the political order or regulate at least part of it. This is in clear contradiction to the principles of the sovereignty of the people, the separation of state and religion, freedom of expression and general equal rights, all of which are laid down in the Basic Law of the Federal Republic of Germany."

And that is fine. That is Germany explaining why some individuals or groups are on it's watchlist. Spot on. I am sure the individuals or groups are on the same watchlist as many other groups that are not Islamic.

2nd link won't open.

3rd link opens, but there is nothing related to the subject there. Just a header page.

4th Link geoblocked their end. Last link, wiki, blocked my end.

Still not seeing an answer to me question. And yes, I totally get it that there are groups of nuts that want to take over the world. And that is why many are proscribed. But that risk is being managed.

And what I see is that managed risk being amplified as tho it is an existential threat to the west, when it is not.

Agree with you.

It's not healthy to despise the place you live in so much.

Criticise it, yes. The West isn't perfect and deserves to be criticised. But normal levels of criticism isn't what we are seeing. To express support for terrorism when the terrorists want to destroy the West is madness.