Whole families on UC, PIP, DLA and carers' allowance for each other?

I grew up in a working/under class environment. People were absolutely abusing the system en masse even back then. It was an open secret and lots of girls aspired to have kids ASAP and get a council house knowing they wouldn't have to work for decades if they had enough children. Benefits have actually tightened quite a lot since then in terms of requiring parents to work. I think this is a factor in the increase in disability claims. Obviously not everybody and perhaps not even most, but don't kid yourself it isn't happening.
They probably weren't as lucky as you but lots of my friends with crap backgrounds have made something of themselves. It's not all about luck and it really undermines what some have achieved by pretending that it is.

I think the point the Op is trying to make, is that the benefits system actually encourages some parents to coast without taking any responsibility for at least attempting to stop the cycle, yet they continue to bring new children into this cycle. It's pretty difficult for any child to be motivated to get out of a benefits cycle without parental and external support.

Of course this doesn't apply to all parents with difficult children, but don't kid yourselves, it does apply to a sizable minority.

Because I don’t believe people do abuse the system.

No en masse like the OP says.

Im lucky that my upbringing was generally middle class and so k was raised in an aspirational household. I’m intelligent so did well at school and had a fairly ok school experience.

It gave me the tools I needed to cope and manage when things went tits up and unprepared in my adult life.

Some people aren’t that lucky .

Claiming benefits should never give an equivalent or even better lifestyle than those of working people. We should be more focused on supporting the younger generation/working families on low incomes so they can have better childcare to work full time, and anyone too lazy/anxious to work should have to rely on family/friends to support their lifestyles like generations did 50 years ago.

The logic here is mind blowing.

People that can't afford to have children having four with expensive SEN. Very few people have the resources to look after four children properly, let alone if they don't work and are disabled themselves. Surely she realised after the first two that her children have additional needs and it would be very difficult for her or the state to meet these needs, yet she selfishly continued having more and more children. She now never needs to work a day in her life, gets paid a small fortune in benefits and we are supposed to be grateful to her for looking after the children she chose to have? If we suggest otherwise then we get told she's saving the country millions.

All parents should look after their own children as default. We aren't all saving the state money. Whatever happend to personal responsibility and giving a shit about the conditions you are bringing your children into? I judge her, resent her and don't want her to financially benefit from her feckless decisions. I don't want her children to suffer. This is the paradox but I will never accept we should be grateful to her.

So just like another poster set out, this is a married couple, why is the state paying each of them to 'look after' the other, this is just what you do as a partnership/working together. Why do they need money to do that?

Carers allowance, in my view, should be an amount that compensates for the carer not working and doing caring instead, but that should require a) them to be able to work and b) evidence of the tasks needed, the outcomes that can only be met by that carer (ie they cant be met by any other universal services), the time taken which should equate to a full time job of 35 hours a week c) it needs to be dovetailed with PIP because PIP is the money that is meant to provide support for the additional costs of being disabled.

If that were the case, a husband or wife (or partners) could provide care for one of them (not each claiming it) because one of them wouldnt be working in order to provide proper full time care, but it would need to be evidenced.

It is probably why I dont think I will bother.

Nope, no one ever checks either the caring or the hours.

Can you care for yourself
Prepare a simple meal
Travel from A to B independently
If yescl than its unlikey you will be successful

One of my siblings actually said to me that she wouldn’t get out of bed as early as me for a salary. I thought she was stupid and far too comfortable on her benefits. Her £4,000 per month on benefits made her ignorant to the real world in terms of minimum wage and living in a budget. She has no rent or council tax to pay. She is comfortable in her little bubble. She has made 4 children who all have the same disability therefore PIP.

That's shocking, @Ethelspagetti. She should put them all in care and get a bloody job.

Oh, hang on ... Google tells me it costs around £6kpw to keep a child in care in the UK, so that would be far more costly than your sister getting £4k a month to care for them herself. She's saving the taxpayer a small fortune.

I think the bottom line is that no-one ever checks up what kind of caring is being done. So as long as the cared for person is in receipt of the qualifying disability benefit no-one from DWP ever checks on the caring. This is how you get cases as you describe. The only time I've ever seen caring duties being scrutinized was for a PIP appeal where the claimant was caring for her mother and the tribunal panel were questioning her on the care she gave and whether it contradicted the reasons she qualified for PIP. When someone applies for carers allowance they are never asked what specific care they give.

I get PIP and my DH claims CA. I have to say, I can’t understand how two people can claim CA for each other if they’re both on PIP. I get PIP because I can’t do things for myself, DH has to do them. If he were also disabled I couldn’t do things for him that I can’t do for myself.

I may be able to prompt him to take medication or offer encouragement but given the marked deficits across the board you need to get PIP in the first place, I doubt anyone would be able to claim it if they just needed mental support. I’d imagine those cases were very few and far between.

Indeeed but its the same on every disabillity thread posters always know somone who gets PIP who in their opnion shouldnt

I want to claim as I wear hearing aids in both ears but I work and even though I still struggle to hear customers it will probably be a nope.

Except assessors are known to invent many reasons that are bonkers to say No.
Like you have a degree (that you got 30 years ago) therefore you can <insert totally unrelated tasks like driving>

That’s why so many people are successful at tribunal.

Chances are there's far more to her claim that you don't know about

Agree. I know someone who gets PIP mainly for anxiety. Yet it doesn't stop her leading what many would think as a very normal life. She manages to rent out caravans, go and spend weekends in her caravan, regularly rides a bike , looks after her grandkids, hosts friends for meals once a week, can go out alone. I would love to know exactly what PIP descriptors she scored points on. PIP needs serious reform. The interim Timms report has found it not fit for purpose. I've worked in benefits advice for eight years and am baffled by how some people get awarded PIP so easily and other very deserving people get declined and have to fight for it. The whole system needs overhauling.

Yes you can.

Just re watched the Call The Midwife episode where the mum nearly kills herself with sepsis so she doesn't have a nineth child. Luckier now with a safety net and legal abortions.

PiP is really specific essentially if you csn care for your self and prepare food ( and that can be as simple as a microwaved meal
And get yourself from A to B independently
Than you are unlikely to be successful regardless of what conditions you may have.

Yes, I agree it would need to be well organised but I think the shift in culture towards having to contribute to get your benefits would be great. Ironically it could be organised by people that can't find work themselves but have the right skill set to coordinate this kind of programme. Unemployed people aren't all unskilled and incapable.

I think when people get used to having to keep to regular hours and work under instruction then this could help regulate their home life and give them a new perspective on paid work. If you're having to get out of bed and do stuff for 'free' anyway, why not look for paid work that gets you a bit more for not much more effort? The equation shifts slightly and those that can but choose not to may decide that actually it is worth doing.

Well that just isnt the case at all with service users Ive worked with other the years, both parties have MH issues and both are caring for each other.

Some posts on here made me think of "Jude the Obscure"!

There's probably a Dickens novel or two that would be more appropriate, but I don't know much Dickens.

I was a Police Officer for a while, and I absolutely met many families like this. I didn't realise anyone lived this way, until I saw it with my own eyes.

Op, you will get many people telling you that what you're saying isn't true. It's because they haven't ever seen it.

I will never, ever forget what I saw. Utterly horrific homes where no one works, no one ever cleans, shit smeared all over the walls, black mattresses for beds, rubbish heaped in corners and never taken outside, children ignored and not fed.

You have to see it to believe it. In my 5 years, I only saw 2 normal homes. The rest were like I describe above. "Normal" people have no idea what goes on.

Don't get me wrong, I hate writing people off too. I think a good society is one that everyone gets a chance to contribute something towards.

I do think that unpaid work needs to be well organised though. Most people in that situation aren't going to be able to find something productive to do off their own backs. They need suitable opportunities and I have seen some good things being done but it's a bit hit and miss as to whether you can access them. I know I've had times in my life where I've looked at volunteering and it's all been lone working for example.