Whole families on UC, PIP, DLA and carers' allowance for each other?

Then don’t complain about people on benefits getting “the same” as your full time wage.

As I said, it isn’t as rare as you/people think. That was what I specifically said. Multiple times. Nothing more, nothing less. I stand by that. It isn’t as rare you/people think it is.

I presumed the person who had something that was “hugely impacting their decision making” has a disability. If that isn’t your in-laws then I’m not sure why your paragraph included them in the next sentence. It was like you were using them as an example.

As I said if someone can’t do something, it isn’t an active choice they are making. As I said, that applies whether they meet the definition of being disabled or not. It also applies whether they are in receipt of PIP or not. So, you imagine wrong.

This is such a strange debate. There is no universal presumed frequency of admission for such a specific condition. I stated that it seldom happens, implying it's rare, you have argued with me all this time but when I suggested that you thought it was pretty common you take exception to that. So do you think it's rare too?

You did presume they had a disability. I stated that they were temperature sensitive in my opinion due to an ND trait. You then wrote:
So despite what you portrayed in your post, your in laws aren’t actually making a choice. If they can’t do something or need something because of their disability it isn’t a choice. That was the point I was making
They aren't disabled. Their choices are influenced by their limitations and traits as are everyone else's. The inability to accept that the concept of 'choice' is nuanced and often influenced by limitations is frustrating. Something can ostensibly appear to be a choice but actually there is something else driving it. This is true for people that are disabled and non disabled people. My sister was another example I used. She won't drive long distances because she feels so anxious doing this and feels unsafe. Is this a choice or a symptom of unusual anxiety? Anxiety is a normal part of the human condition but most people can drive long distances.

If a disabled person with an anxiety disorder stated that their PIP was used to pay for taxis as they couldn't drive far then I imagine you would view this differently than my sister's anxiety but can we be absolutely sure they are not the same thing? Some people just experience fewer traits and symptoms than others but the problem is widely prevalent in the population.

My overall point is that people are incurring extra costs for traits and symptoms outside of their control all the time. Some of these can be extremely costly and yet they won't qualify for PIP. The cost of the disability isn't assessed when awarding PIP. This leads to huge grey areas and incentives to lean into difficulties to make sure the claim is successful.

We dont distinguish them in that way?

We give people pip based on specific care needs (mainly washing, dressing and cooking) specific communication and specific mobility needs. We distinguish people based on those needs, not on thier costs. We have differing thresholds for not disabled enough to get it at all to needing a bit to needing a lot. Yes there will be people just either side of each threshold and some of it will be subjective.

But no one gets pip for feeling cold. Its not a criteria. So picking on one specific cost and finding someone else with that cost isnt really how it set uo as a benefit.

People give heating as an example of something they spend thier pip on because other people ask them. Which leads to these discussions, but the intention behind pip is to offset some, not all of the costs, if you have those specific needs in the criteria and for the recipient to spend it in anyway a way that helps them most. Its not specifically so people with mental health issues can heat the house and people end up trying themselves in knots trying to explain how they need heating necessarily.

The reason I've needed carers this summer is because the heat triggers my condition and causes fainting and collapse. It's not just "I'm uncomfortable cause I'm hot, give me money" Its a genuine fall risk to some people and I've needed to modify the bathrooms and stairs so I don't fall and injure myself..?

I disagree that the unemployed people on benefits in these situations have a better quality of life at the moment. Culturally they have a very low status in our society and tend to be less happy and have worse self esteem than average for their standard of living.

If we’re going to have a society where a significant percentage of people are not capable of working in the jobs that are available we need a sea change in our social attitudes and culture.

I never said frequently. I said I was told “it wasn’t as rare as you think”. I have been told that by multiple HCPs as I said in my pp. I didn’t include because of difficulties regulating temperature at the end of that paragraph because I didn’t feel the need to since that was what was being discussed. I’m sorry if you found that confusing and didn’t understand it was a continuation of a discussion about admissions relating to difficulties to regulating temperature. I should have been more explicit.

I didn’t presume anyone (ETA: using the meaning ‘just’ anyone rather than anyone as in any person) had a disability. I presumed someone who had something that was “hugely impacting their decision making” (your words) has a disability because, yes, someone whose condition is ‘hugely impacting’ life meets the definition in the Equality Act of having a disability. Most people do not have conditions that hugely impact every day life.

Of course people with mental health conditions can be admitted to hospital for all sorts of things. The question is whether they are frequently admitted to hospital solely due to a failure to regulate their own temperature as a result of a mental health condition. You have suggested that the experts would verify something else entirely.

You presumed my In laws had a disability because I said they had ND traits. You then reiterated that non disabled people making choices is different to disabled people making choices. Now you accept that you don't have to be disabled to have your decisions limited and influenced. If most of us have these limitations then why do we distinguish someone with a diagnosis of a ND condition needing the heating on and someone with the exact same trait but without the diagnosis also needing the heating on? Both have equal control over their choices. When most of us have ND traits and we know that those without a diagnosis can have stronger traits in specific areas than those with a diagnosis then what is 'normal'. The idea that disabled people are fundamentally different to everyone else is wrong. It's very often a threshold issue which is inherently subjective.

I have not missed your point. I haven’t said someone has to be disabled to have a limitation. My point was that there is a difference between what someone can’t do because of their disability and an active choice not to do something just because they don’t want to do something. Someone who can’t do something because of a long term condition but who doesn’t meet the criteria for having a disability as per the Equality Act isn’t making an active choice just not to do something because they don’t want to doesn’t fall into the group I was talking about.

Great, I will tell DS1’s psychiatrist who is a leading psychiatrist of a national CAMHS service, 2 consultant anaesthetists, 1 respiratory consultant, 1 neurologist and the critical care nurses who were involved in the discussions that a relative of a random person on the internet says are all wrong that it isn’t rare for people with mental health conditions, including those without co-morbidities, to be admitted to hospital.

You still aren't getting it. People don't have to be disabled to have limitations due to ill health, chronic conditions or ND traits. Three quarters of people over 45 have a chronic health condition. Many choices they make will be dictated by these conditions. This is even more true for ND traits that we all have
https://www.birmingham.ac.uk/news/2024/understanding-neurodiversity-across-the-uk-population-study

I have just verified with my relative who works in this field and she has completely contradicted what you suggest. There is almost always co-morbidities. Thermoregulation in itself is rarely the sole reason for an admission.

The NHS sometimes/perhaps often do not provide or prescribe what is actually needed. We have had major battles over unsuitable equipment being provided. For example the NHS providing a wheelchair rather than a special needs pushchair on the basis that a wheelchair is age appropriate when a wheelchair isn't suitable for his needs. And unsuitable incontinence pads again using the age appropriate reasoning - strangely the 'age appropriate' option is also the cheaper one.
Don't get me started on continuing care funding and the amount of bullying, lying and completely ignoring the National Framework by health authorities to the point of putting disabled people at severe risk of harm.

LCWRA on the old higher rates is £429 a month extra so significant significant amount. It's also given out pretty easily in my honest opinion and rarely re-assessed so people just stay on it for years. The system is completely overwhelmed and they prioritise new claims assessments. the new LCWRA rate is about £215 a month I think so significantly less.

My cousin gets this and benifit for the child so she gets nearly £2500, I know this for a fact as I help her fill out stuff. The stuff that she said she couldn’t do she appears to now be able to now she has had her daughter

The things I listed aren’t provided free for everyone who needs them.

If someone can’t do something because of their disability, it is part of their disability related expenses. It wasn’t the only expense I listed.

The post I was originally replying to said “Not for having high functioning asd or adhd. How does having a mental health or pain condition cost that? There’s a likelyhood that I may end up in a wheelchair, I have a blue badge. I get meds free and get physio from nhs. I have bought a cane but what else would it cost me?” That post didn’t acknowledge some with a pain condition, some with some mental health conditions, some with HF ASD and some with ADHD have significant disability related expenses which is why I replied to it.

@Harry12345

She can't possibly get £2500. Unless you're including rent, which you say you're not.
UC with one child is around £200 a week. Even the disability premium only adds about £200 a month (£400 if claiming before recent changes). PIP at the highest care rate is about £450. She wouldn't qualify for this rate just on meals though.

So £1650 a month at the most. And rules have changed meaning a new claimant wouldn't get those rates now.

I have repeatedly said obviously there is some people who require the money for their disabilities and they are not who I am speaking about.

I do have a hearing impairment. Alarm clocks, doorbells, smoke alarms are provided free. It's not the gotcha you think. The only thing I have to pay for is hearing aid batteries. That is it.

Lots of people can't shop around because of chronic health issues or just social issues. We really shouldn't be expecting the government to compensate us for this.

Honestly it is getting ridiculous. Some people do have extra costs, and sometimes significant extra costs. Lots of people don't.

Well my original post to you was because you seemed to fail to grasp why some people with certain conditions might have significant disability related expenses.

Yes, in DS1’s case it was co-mobid with other conditions, but as I said, conversations I had with HCPs told me that it wasn’t as rare as people think for people to be admitted unable to regulate temperature because of MH conditions. They weren’t just meaning those who had co-morbidities.

Peope, that can’t do something because of a disability isn’t the same as other situations where don’t decide not to do something.

Well I don’t get why you keep arguing with me then, if you read all my posts I have not once said I am against benifits, I am talking about what I experience a lot in my field of work and large family and people known to me through others. I know a single mum with one child who is 3 months old who gets £2400 in benifits. She has been to college and is thinking about doing nursery teaching. Her disability related issues is takeaways as she doesn’t like touching food but since the baby now touches food. She has no other costs. There is probably things she could pay for that would benifit her but she doesn’t. I just do not think she should be getting £2500 a month, that’s what I get but need to pay rent and council tax.

They are not disabled. You can have ND traits and not being disabled. It's a normal part of the human condition. It's why we have Broader Autism Phenotype etc.

If was only part of the reason why he was hospitalised then it was comorbid with something else. People are seldom hospitalised due to poor temperature regulation as a result of their mental health condition without something else being at play.

Right, but I was talking about PIP.

What’s your qualifications and experience to say that everyone on benifits can’t work

I have not said that!

You are now implying that the ND has to be comorbid with another health condition that needs specific temperature regulation.

No I’m not. I said that it can also, not that it always has to.

DS1 has been hospitalised because of his poor temperate regulation. That is in part because of his mental health conditions and the treatment of those. While he was admitted, discussions with HCPs told me it wasn’t as rare as you think for people with MH conditions to be admitted as a result of being unable to regulate their temperate.

So despite what you portrayed in your post, your in laws aren’t actually making a choice. If they can’t do something or need something because of their disability it isn’t a choice. That was the point I was making.

No I equate claiming universal credit with it. I have said repeatedly that people are due it and need it, I am talking about the ones that don’t. What’s your qualifications and experience to say that everyone on benifits can’t work, aren’t lying on their claim forms or should be entitled to more that those who work full time??