Whole families on UC, PIP, DLA and carers' allowance for each other?

The Tories were the ones who originally peddled this nonsense and eventually even they admitted they had no evidence of generations of people who don’t work.

it’s a lie.

So, as an ‘SEN teacher’, how do you conclude that people you’re supposed to be supporting with disabilities are faking it in order not to have to work?

And also the job market is hard enough for a bright person without disabilities to break into at the moment.

Having worked in the sector I absolutely recognise this op. Multi generational worklessness is a massive issue. Successive governments have tried a variety of schemes to address it, with minimal success. I don’t know what the answer is.

I’m an SEN teacher and I see it all the time. Completely agree OP.

New branded trainers?! How awful. Would you prefer they bought the cheapest thing possible that would fall apart in 2 months?

A lot of people buy new stuff for a fraction of the price from Vinted.

Your post is full of waffle.
Some parents of children with a learning disability will also have a learning disability themselves.
I didn't attend school based workshops etc as I found them a waste of time and patronising.
Some professionals talk down to parents of disabled children and I avoid those professionals wherever possible.

And Spain spends the same amount on welfare as we do overall so it clearly doesn't save anything with this approach.

Whilst I do agree in part with what you're saying (and have seen examples of this having worked with many people in these sort of situations) i would also say that the job market is also to blame for it's increasingly high expectations.Even for someone who from a privelidged or well educated background this is tough at times, and the application criteria can be daunting, as even to do something basic like work in a shop they want experience, qualifications, high levels of literacy and social skills etc, and at times the entry level jobs can be the hardest to get and most competitive.
Many manual labour jobs (which can suit less academic people or those who struggle with public facing roles, confidence with social interactions etc ) have disappeared with the reduction of trades and manufacturing in our country.
Also, it's often hard to find a job that will fit around school/nursery hours.Not everyone is in a 2 parent relationship or has family for support with childcare, and out of school club fees soon add up.
Although yes some have no motivation to even TRY and find work, it is not always just as simple or black and white as someone not having a job=choosing to claim benefits.

I do however, think unfortunately there is alot of materialism nowadays, and that benefits (not PIP or DLA as there is obviously equipment, travel etc these need to pay for) should be given as vouchers for food, energy etc, because i've witnessed families who don't work spending their benefits money on new branded trainers, expensive mobile phones etc, which is obviously not ok.

In countries with benefits that aren't as universal but still have elevated workplace requirements, those people don't become more competent - they just become a burden on families. And when it's a heavily genetic component, that means that a few families will carry that burden and be dragged down.

In Spain, for instance, where benefits are tied to past employment, there is very high youth unemployment - though only a small proportion qualify for benefits. People who are unable to do well in the workplace aren't categorized as disabled and given benefits on that basis, but they still aren't working, they're just living off family.

If these parents are so incapable and useless, they shouldn't be having children they can't look after in the first place. As for all the handouts they get, those handouts come from the taxes of people who get off their backsides and work.

The problem is that the system perpetuates itself. Parents unable to meet the demand of the modern workplace produce children that are even more unable to meet those demands, who then go onto produce children that are even more unable. Without such generous are wide-reaching benefits, people would have to strive and push themselves to be able to compete. No other country has anything like as much of a negative benefits culture as Britain,. In most countries that have benefits, they are much more contribution based, people who have paid in get a good amount but it is time-limited and they are soon able to find jobs to support themselves and their families.

Most benefits recipients are not receiving anywhere near this much. Most of the benefit recipients I know get nowhere near minimum wage. The only people getting significant amounts meet a specific set of criteria and are hobbled by rules you're not hobbled by as a condition of receiving enough to live off. They likely also have costs associated with disability that you probably don't have.

We have 2 disabled dc. One (barely) coping in mainstream, the other in a specialist setting.
We don’t claim carers allowance.We both work full time.
It’s really fucking hard to hold down a full time job, when your kids are disabled. Even more so when one or both of them are in crisis.

We’ve been part of the send community for over a decade & have met many families from all walks of life. I don’t recognise the picture presented by the ops comments.

Every parent we’ve met has been killing themselves trying to do their best for their dc.

While I’m sure that there are some out there who “game the system”, this is true of everything. People find & use tax loopholes, but we shouldn’t condemn all the self employed. MPs have flouted laws & abused the expenses system, but we can’t tar them all with the same brush.

Some vile comments on the thread.

Quit your job and claim benefits then.

My issue is that someone not working is getting the same in benefits as my wage working full time in a professional role

Yes it really does rile me when I couldn't get pip for an actual real disability (chronic fatigue and anxiety) for a number of years....and yet some people really do know how to play the system. I genuinely couldn't work, but didn't get anything and therefore just had to suck it up and live extremely frugally. Thankfully DH had a half decent paid job and cost of living was cheaper and our dc were younger as not as expensive as now. Mercifully I'm now well enough to work....but it galls me that I wasn't supported for a genuine illness, when many others get paid for sod all!

There is no need for people to get jobs if the government funds them why would people work? They just continue the cycle for the generation and so it continues

What you’re describing is normally found in extremely deprived areas. There are no jobs. No opportunities. Generations of the same families relying on the welfare system, because that’s all they’ve ever known, as there are no jobs and support. Kids behaving poorly in education, that’s if they even make it in.

Many users (not all) of Mumsnet generally don’t experience this life style or have ever come across it.

That's really short sighted.

I use my PIP for whatever I want or need and ultimately that money gets put back into circulation because I spend it.

If you say it can only be used on certain products and services that's when corrupt governments sell off contracts to their mates to provide those products and services where what is offered is subpar to cost cut, whilst the astronomical fees are paid to private organisations and the profits don't really re-enter circulation, but also gives power to these organisations to increase their fees or they can just pull the rug from underneath service users. We already see a lot of this in health and social care.

It's not a leap to say that this is exactly what would happen should benefits framework follow this trend.

There's a big difference between ''Something needs to be done about the people who abuse benefits'' and ''Benefits are the worst thing to have ever happened to this country''. The latter does completely dismiss how many genuine people rely on benefits to survive.

I think it's often forgotten that the demands of the workplace now are far higher for low level work than they used to be. Healthy and safety requirements, tight scheduling to eek out waste, emotional labour demands, etc. lift jobs that used to be fairly low demand and accessible for people with many mental health conditions out of reach. This increase in demand has created an unemployable class.

Possibly, intense intervention could help some gain the skills needed, but we don't provide that as a matter of course and it's not something people are generally able to access for themselves, especially if they haven't been exposed to the idea it's even possible in a way they trust.

Of course there will be a few people who play the system, but when countries with welfare states do cut benefits to people in these situations, they don't tend to find that there are suddenly masses more people working in sustained employment who had been on benefits before. They find people in states of desperation. Pinging from one job to another. Relying on family, friends and charity. etc.

I have two children with unrelated disabilities with no genetic traits. One gets DLA, the other PIP (now young adult).

I get carers allowance in the grand sum of £81 per week. I had to quit my senior level role earning £48,000 a year, and blow up my career 10 years ago, when my eldest had to be taken out of school due to shocking scapegoating of him, and me, because they didn't know how to deal with him. Youngest's disability came afterwards so I've been fucked ever since with working.

I have spent years dealing with Tribunals and educating myself about SEND Law but still didn't get very far with getting the correct support. I have been at the end of my tether and totally burn out.

You'll be glad to know we don't get Universal Credit because my DH works 60 hours a week to provide for us, though.

My house is immaculate and DC are driven everywhere on time.

Life is bloody hard a lot of the time. Never met any parent like you describe apart from those who obviously have disabilities themselves.

You seem to be extremely judgy of disabled kids and their families.

Is that because you think you have a right to be because we get 'free' money?

I have met a few families like this but they are the exception, they have multiple disadvantages, parents have often have undiagnosed learning difficulties and had poor childhood experiences themselves, they have children with disabilities and life is tough, they do not have the resources themselves to fight the system, take children to extra curricular groups or community resources as they often have depression, anxiety and difficulty interacting with others.

These families are trapped on benefits, they claim what they are entitled to, why not? However if you have a parent claiming PIP for themselves, DLA for 2 children, UC, carers allowance, child benefit and housing benefit, they could be receiving the equivalent of someone earning around £55,000 a year, they would never be able to earn that, and when the children become adults and benefits reduce they experience a huge income drop.

Mumsnetters have been groomed into believing that anybody who even questions where their hard earned taxes are going is a monster, a brute and is "bashing". That's the entirety of it. They will never listen to logic or reason, it's absolutely just an emotional flip the lid response at someone from outside the tribe daring to even ask a question.

Of course there are loads of freeloaders, and yep there are lazy grifters getting PIP, UC and all the rest.

Pretending otherwise is the virtue signal, and false consensus (logical fallacy) is encouraged and enforced on these threads. This lets them feel they're in the majority and they can go back to their comfortable bubble of self righteousness.

But you're quite right, of course.