Whole families on UC, PIP, DLA and carers' allowance for each other?

I would rather he had more money and less went to the people who claim they are very disabled and need PIp while simultaneously claiming they are a carer for someone else who is very disabled and needs Pip.

Pip and carers allowance should be mutually exclusive. That would put an end to a fair amount of the scamming

The school environment can be very mixed with parents on benefits and those who work.

Sadly though by the end of Autumn Reception term there seems to be cliques formed with parents on benefits and working parents hanging out separately so the kids don't tend to mix outside of school. This means disadvantage kids have even less exposure to extra curricular activities and opportunities while working parents and going from club to club and theatre shows at the weekends.

Maybe some kind of support to get the kids to all these opportunities so they can see themselves what they could achieve and break the cycle.

This thread is rather tacky. At one point due to a SERIOUS condition which almost cost me my life, I was signed off work for more than 3 months and have to rely upon a modest amount in benefits, as I had a mortgage at the time, I didn’t qualify for anything else during that period and that didn’t cover half my mortgage costs. However, the contempt and sheer elitist attitude I encountered from the job centre staff down to every day folk when my I mentioned I was currently on benefits was absolutely appalling.

Despite having multiple surgeries and still no long term fix, I’ve gone back to work full time (against my consultant advice) because I can’t afford to live, feed my son and function (racked up so much credit debts to keep my head above water) and having to wear adult nappies, I then get even more appealing comments directed at benefit claimants. They’ll say ‘see, you’re really sick but if you can work, why can’t they?’

In both situations I felt like crap, one as direct result of being on benefits and second for people using me as a reason to continue to bash people on benefits.

FYI I am struggling to physically and mentally do it all but as long as I get a slap on the back from people like the OP, it makes my chronic pain, indignity and mental and physical burn out, OK.

I am sick of people making threads and lying about their intentions.

OP you can absolutely have your opinion and I advocate it but say it with your chest.

How will my quadraplegic mate be up and dressed a full hour before his carers arrive?

You are free to think and want that, it doesn’t offend me in the slightest.

What labour can my quadraplegic mate do?

I agree with you and have seen this a lot but mostly in areas of high social deprivation.

There's far more to disability than being able to walk and speak

It's a Personal Independence Payment.

There are plenty claiming who can walk and speak. Look at the claimants with MH issues. It'd do a lot of people good to be up, dressed and out of the house for 9am daily, engaged with other people for part of the day and doing something worthwhile, instead of sat rotting inside on Netflix.

If it is completely impossible for you to work, there can be exceptions. But the majority on PIP can do something.

OP I see you. I work in safeguarding and I have to remind myself that the majority of parents don’t fall into your description but SO MANY do. Enough that it’s a societal issue. The apathy from these families is staggeringly hard to combat as there is no incentive for them to do, do anything, move, push themselves, think. It’s very sad.

The thing is, benefits that you have not yet been paid, aren't "your money".

agreed! I highly doubt OP has that much insight into so many people’s lives.

I live on benefits. I look very well. I’m not (and it’s not MH). I’m sure there are plenty of people who think that I could work. I can’t.

So you'll be supplying all the carers and other adjustments to enable this to happen which will cost more than pip?

You clearly don't know what pip is. It's for extra disability costs. Why on earth should people work for that?

I agree with you op.
If you are so disabled you need benefits then surely you are too disabled to care. I think we need an end to the system where you can be both.
I don't meet the threshold for benefits (if I am honest in my application) yet I know I would be too disabled to care for someone else who met the threshold

My relative is a judge and has seen a number of cases this year alone where people have been pulling exactly this scam.

I think you should be able to claim carers or PIp but not both.

I fundamentally disagree.

I went to a school with a lot of these families and still know a lot today. Some have issues that are insurmountable without high levels of support but many simply aren't motivated enough to change when their needs are being met already. It is human nature and many of us are guilty of this to some extent in different aspects of our lives. We need to believe that we have to change or something very bad will happen to us. Lots of these families know that they can carry on as they are and be fine. It might not be an existence you or I should want, but for them it's good enough and that's all that matters.

I'm a teacher, also the parent of a child (now an adult in his 30s) with a life threatening and life limiting condition. For context, as a kid he would spend roughly 2 weeks every 3 months in intensive care (from the age of 2 until the age of 13) and then another 2 weeks at home with paralysis. This would eventually clear and we'd go back to a couple of good months before the cycle started all over again.

We we had (still have) 2 other 'kids'.

We were poor because we never realised that we were meant to be saying we couldn't manage and be on benefits. I worked part-time during the week (25 hours, not as a teacher, low paid roles), my husband worked 2 x 12 hour shifts at the weekends. We just about managed.

Never had time to meet the parents of other SEN kids or go to any initiatives because we were too busy. No involvement from social services. We basically battled on with zero support.

Imagine my surprise when my kid became an adult and I started talking to his adult friends like adults. I helped one of them with their PIP application (because mum couldn't be bothered any more as the money wouldn't be going into her pocket). We had this interesting exchange (after he was awarded PIP) when he asked me how much I earned - in 2022 I was bringing home about £1,800 a month (as a teacher). He said 'I wouldn't get out of bed for less than £3,000.' His reasoning was that he actually had more coming in than I did (PIP + UC + housing element) and he'd want an uplift of at least £150 pw to consider getting a job. That's actually really logical. He lives in his own place. I later learned that at his mum's there were various claimants. Mum herself has never worked, gets PIP, UC and housing element. Brother has never worked, gets PIP and UC. Sister has never worked, gets PIP and UC. It is a generational issue.

I happen to work in the school near where this lad's family live. The pattern I describe above isn't exceptional.

You realise PIP is for people who need care so may not be able to walk, move, speak?

This. As a society we are responsible for creating a segment of society who have never worked and live out their lives in dependency…it is morally wrong. Only going to get worse as AI takes over traditional jobs. ‘As a taxpayer’ it actually upsets me, the waste of money, but more than that it’s upsets me because this is not a good way to LIVE.

Yes. Some people use it to support work, great they can carry on. Some use it to not work, they need to be doing something.

I'd actually also have people signing in/on daily. If via PIP that can be from home if your mobility doesn't allow, but a daily 9am up and dressed zoom call would force some kind of routine on to people.

OP is describing what she has seen. She has not attributed it to all parents, but we do a disservice to dismiss her experience.

Then you do it all benefits. Why should I as a disabled person have no say in how I spend my money, yet a single parent is free to spend their money on whatever even if DC go without?

I cant deny at all that this is sometimes the case, OP.
Can't deny it.

The key word here, of course, is sometimes.

As a parent of a special needs child I find this wildly offensive. Whilst this might be your limited experience in one school with a particular demographic, it is certainly not mine.
I work as does my husband. We are highly educated. You likely wouldn’t see as at those parent events because of work commitments. We also wouldn’t be driving our child because we have to get our other children at mainstream to school. So yes, our SEN child travels by LA transport.
DLA only covers a tiny fraction of the childcare cost of paying for a SEN support worker - which unfortunately is the only safe and suitable childcare but isn’t eligible for most childcare help others are entitled to, as there are no are ofsted registered support workers in our area.

You sound judgemental and ill informed.

I think you have a point OP.

Low aspirations can run in families and then passed to the next generation. In my line of work I have come across generational abuse and over reliance on state benefits which then doesn't enable people to work.

If we look at other countries that don't have state benefits like in the UK, (Asia and Africa) you will find the poorest people having to take on manual labor jobs to put food in their table and feed their kids. Children are also expected to work.

A colleague of mine from India made the observation and commented that in her country the poorest are very thin and in the UK is was the opposite.

Some kind of halfway between that and what we have would be help break the generational benefits trap cycle.

Do you even know what pip is? Sounds like you really don't

It's time that UC and PIP required some sort of labour. There should be some sort of community service type work done by people on UC and PIP. Don't turn up, don't get paid.