Whole families on UC, PIP, DLA and carers' allowance for each other?

Ime SEN school tends to mean fairly educated middle class parents because of the lengthy administrative fight required to get there, which can be facilitated by comfort with paperwork and legislation, willingness to challenge professionals, money to speed up the gathering of reports and potential tribunal costs, and the infamous "sharp elbows".

PRU and sitting-in-the-corridor-in-mainstream is slightly more the demographic you describe, as these are the default LA option for a child who is struggling in the classroom and therefore what you end up with if you don't have a very determined parent taking the SEN system on as a part-time office job around doing the actual care.

At the end of the day, it will have to change. The current system isn't sustainable. The only question is when.

This is not a bashing. Whatever the reason apathy and disengagement in some adults in this country is a fact . The OP is describing a phenonam they have observed and lived as an educater and a parent. At least she is trying to support and look for answers, are you?

No, because it enables the situation to continue. There is no motivation to change it and every incentive to remain helpless and incapable as you get more money that way. It's how the system works.

If we’re talking ADHD and autism, getting a diagnosis on the NHS is near enough impossible due to insanely long or even closed waiting lists.

In general, a private diagnosis is not likely to be less valid. Most private doctors are also NHS consultants.

Also, in my experience, the DWP will not award PIP solely based on medical letters. I had to apply 3 times. My application worked when I also supplied letters of support from managers at my employers and other non-medical professionals who knew me.

That's really unfair and judgemental. Getting an EHCP for my DC was simple but I'm under no illusion that me being a professional was a factor in that. No one was judging me on my vocabulary, my childs name or how I present myself. I could articulate his needs well, I could challenge other professionals respectfully. I set the scene of being a what is expected to be a 'good' parent. I was married, working, my child was in nursery from 9 months, we were well dressed and I paid for private SALT. Things that adults with their own learning difficulties can't always manage.

Benefits are relevant because they're an enabler to lazy and unmotivated people. This doesn't mean that everyone on benefits is lazy and unmotivated but let's be honest, if benefits didn't exist then it would be a lot more difficult and unpleasant to be lazy as you would end up without the basic essentials. You don't see many wild animals too lazy and unmotivated to hunt for their own food do you?

It's also relevant because you're right that rich people can also be lazy and unmotivated but if they're not claiming benefits then at least they're not asking the rest of us to fund them. Lots of us don't want to fund lazy and unmotivated people. I think that's fair enough, don't you?

Yes. And giving large amounts of benefits money does not improve the situation

The Rowntree research was discredited years ago as it only looked at a very small area of the country, then claimed it represented the whole of the UK.

Talking utter garbage op

OP you are fighting a losing battle with posters on here, the perpetual victims will not accept that the system is being played and there are people/whole families who earn way more on benefits than they ever would from working! They KNOW how to play the system and get literal thousands into their bank accounts every month and lets be honest why would they bother working when they can get more doing this!! This all started with Blair and Browns welfare reforms and it’s slowly gotten worse with successive governments since! Everyone these days has a “ problem or disability” and i say that as a mother of two children with neurodivergence. When my elder one was diagnosed over 20 years ago i had never even heard of his issue and there was only two other children in his primary school with similar issues. Now every other child has a some kind of diagnosis while all the adults have mental health problems etc!

I can see your point but not sure it’s been put across clearly. I work in an area with high levels of deprivation with many, sometimes large families who claim the mentioned benefits. Within this we have many many families who work hard and are striving to do their best for their children and deserve every penny and more and I can see why many people feel offended! However we do also have a great many families who claim a lot of money in benefits but are unmotivated and do not give their children the care that they need. sometimes this is due to their own learning or health issues, sometimes there is substance misuse and sometimes they just cannot be bothered and are playing the system - with children ending up with special educational needs due to neglect / environmental issues ( think Maslow hierarchy of needs) rather than any other reason. There is a lot of professional support in place to try and improve outcomes for those children, however even with this it is hard to break generational norms.

Yes it's important it's not a pittance.

Working in special education is a privilege that comes with a lot of responsibility for supporting families as a whole.

20 years in and I wouldn’t do anything else.

The ones that have and who share their experiences are generally dismissed and the hard work and any obstacles they have overcome to break the cycle is written off as luck.

Yes an educated professional who was typing extremely sleep deprived as my child doesn't sleep.

Knowing something is wrong is not the same as jealousy. I’m surprised you’ve assumed such a thing. Next you’ll be telling me I’m jealous of overweight people because they have access to more food or of tall people in front of me blocking the view, because they can see better! Your comment actually made me and my husband laugh! Thank you for that laugh! Tax payers money should not be spent on luxuries but on keeping people afloat during a time of need. It is not “free money” it comes from workers salaries through tax.

Ermmm - your experience is different to mine.

I have a disabled DS, I’m a LP, I work in a school doing what you’re doing by the sounds of it - pastoral support (which encompasses everything!)

We do a lot of parent engagement sessions and have an amazing turnout.

We do parent and grandparent lunches, fairs, federation days etc.

All attended really well, our parents are engaged and those who have had a poor upbringing really want to break the cycle.

This year from feedback we’ve realised a lot of soreness feel like they are missing out because they work during the day and can’t attend. Therefore we are doing an evening session. I have said I’ll facilitate as I a) get it as a working parent and b) can have TOIl for my own kids hospital apts!

Maybe the actual truth is that you’re getting it wrong as a school.

Parents who feel isolated may not have the confidence to make the teas and coffees or help themselves to biscuits.

Parents who are isolated may need to step out frequently for gag breaks because being around others is something they’ve lost the skill for.

Parents who talk about going home to watch Netflix may not have access or know how or where to access other opportunities? Does your school do craft sessions or a book club or a coffee morning - ours does.

Maybe if instead of judging people for their circumstances and making assumptions you need to look at how you can further support them to make heh changes they obviously want to make - or they wouldn’t have turned up in the first place.

it’s very obviously a benefits bashing thread with plenty of judgement baked in - because that’s not your experience.

You validate my point entirely, likely without realising, by calling me a fascist.

Thanks for the contemporaneous evidence.

But what you described is people who don't do much with their lives. Maybe it's because they're lazy, maybe it's because they're in pain or depressed or have ND, but how would you know if they're on PIP or UC or not? And why do you care?

Why mention those benefits at all? Why not just say some people are generationally low aspiration and ability and don't seem to have much motivation to change. Not that that's a particularly astute observation about society at large.

707,000 jobs vacancies. 2.5 people looking for work per job. Thats before we get to economically inactive disabled people which is the group a lot of you feel should be working too.

What all these posts are showing is that early intervention, children's centers, famliy support etc was very much needed. We were getting there under, 'Every child matters' and 'Every disabled child matters', but the tories won't fund services, especially those for poor families. Special needs schools went, health services went, community privision went. Austerity, welfare cuts, bedroom tax etc all added to the shit show many areas are now living in. Reform are going to decimate the services remaining. Punishing people won't work. We are were we are, things won't get better and it isn't the fault of many individuals.

Thanks for your kind words. What is your job please?....I was navigating the claim on my own. I think I was too exhausted and overwhelmed to appeal tbh and absolutely didn't know the system having never claimed anything before....and was so disheartened and upset at the decision that I didn't pursue it. I wasn't given any advice about how to respond and didn't realise that I might have won on appeal. It was such a difficult and distressing time. I was told that because I could get dressed within 15 minutes I wasn't unwell enough! The fact was that I had energy for about an hour (max two hrs per day) but that was it. It certainly wasn't enough to be a mother, housewife and hold down a job. Yes I'm super grateful and relieved to have seen a private functional doctor who helped me enormously with my health 🙏🏻

anecdotal stuff may be true on an individual, case by case basis but it doesn’t help anyone understand what the big currents / trends / society wide picture is. On threads like this you just get individuals sharing their experiences, and others wirh fewer direct experiences deciding on emotional bases which is probably representative.

can anyone point us to a good up to date book or source which gives an academic but general-reader-friendly account of the issues in this thread?

This!

also when you have a child with a serious disability it is harder to have a job, because it isn’t like you can ask a mum from the school if she will mind him/ her for 4 hours so you can work late on a project.

when people have typically developing kids they get to see light at the end of the tunnel re childcare. It is easier to accept you are paying massive proportion of your salary because it doesn’t last long.

that said I don’t have any first hand experience and know very few families in this situation, but the two I know very well are. It like you describe.