Whole families on UC, PIP, DLA and carers' allowance for each other?

Where did I say doctors are faking diagnosis? What I said was, patients can reel off symptoms, get a diagnosis or medical letter, then use this to support DLA and PIP applications. I know situations where people have done exactly that. 🤷🏻‍♀️

My lived experience is that, when going to private doctors and specialists, they will write letters stating the symptoms and effects I have told them I am suffering with. In my case, these have all been genuine, but I can absolutely see how someone could go to a specialist, reel off symptoms and get them to write a letter stating the patient had / was suffering from symptoms or conditions, when the patient is exaggerating or not being honest. For example, I went to a private gastroenterologist and told them my symptoms - they subsequently diagnosed me with IBS (there is no test for this) - and wrote a letter to my GP with my symptoms, the impact on my life and recommendations for prescriptions. How does one police whether I was telling the truth or not in this scenario?

It may or may not be, but your 'experience' sounds completely made up and this does come across like a propaganda benefit bashing thread. 🤖

Having a SEN kid is really fucking hard. You may have had everything given to you as an adopter, but it isn't the reality for most SEN parents with biological SEN children. I had two tribunals in a year, all whilst my son barely slept more than three hours most nights and both of us were working.

The reason why one of us claims UC (after both trying to work full time) is because of lack of sleep, endless SEN admin/chasing professionals, exhaustion of managing a child with PICA and meltdowns and the constantly cleaning and tidying you get with a child with severe learning disabilities and sensory seeking behaviour. Plus there is no afterschool or holiday clubs which either one or two people cannot cover for the 15 or so weeks they have off in the holidays. Even couples dont get 15 paid weeks of leave a year or a job that supports that sort of leave.

People manage behaviour at home that an entire team of people manage in a school or a MH unit and even in a MH unit they can manage with meds. We are really fighting just to access medication for our son now. There is just you at home and services that placate you and just don't help, not a team of people there all the time.

The fact you don't get this as a supposed person raising SEN kids makes your opening post really hard to believe as genuine. And how do you explain families who have a normal, thriving child and one with high needs?

The reason parents don't engage in your wonderful groups is because they have tried everything before and you are not offering anything new to them and they are extremely patronising, or just not offering a decent solution. Frantically flicking through a book of PEC cards in the morning to find 'get dressed' with a child that with turn away as soon as you get them out is something we have all tried and just isn't practical. We've got a new app out now to do this, but how long have people in these group suggested this. One solution doesn't work for all kids but it is assumed it does.

There are probably cases like you say, but my experience is it is a very small minority. They will always exist sadly, as they always have.

This is the world I grew up in. It is still going - I left it behind in the 90s and have odd updates from someone who married into the family. I saw draft applications for various benefits/social housing a few years ago and was disgusted by it. I dont know why cross checks arent done across local authorities etc. They all know how to maximise benefit claims, all know the appeals systems, all know what symptoms to complain of to bolster claims. One ND moves out, move on to getting another child diagnosed. Finding out everything they are entitled to at the schools, all the charities who give free things to these families. They only ever work cash in hand, have cupboards FULL of prescription meds they dont need but get it free and take it to bolster their fraud. And dont ask me about their 7/8 holidays abroad each year including cruises. It goes on and on. They dont flaunt the holidays on sm as not daft that way - their semi legal pals do though - the benefits officers wouldnt know the friends. They contribute nothing, criticise everything and access EVERYTHING they possibly can.

On the contrary there are families who should get help, who need help and would qualify - but barely access a thing - for various reasons.

And families fighting tooth and nail for basic help.

Well that depends on what type of SEN school it is
My son goes to a school for childden with severe and profound learning disabillities
The needs of these children are evident to everyone and its very obvious msinstream wouldnt be suitable for
I am seeing a rise in SEMH schools which is good though.

You are demonstrating my point.

Neither I nor the OP are talking about you.

Yet you jump in to derail the conversation. You are defending those who abuse the system. You are trying to prevent a discussion about how to help those who are stuck in a benefits rut and don’t want to get out of it because that is what their community does and all they know.

Your defensiveness is blinding you.

There was a lot of horrible rhetoric at the time. But there was a real issue of mother's on benefits and not working at the time. At one time you could claim benefits as a single mum and not have to look for work until your child left school. The rules were changed and now most mums work at least part time. So there was a real issue that was solved.

You've been through a lot. I know, like almost everyone on disability payments, you would love to be able to get rid of all you have to deal with and be able to live a full and normal life. <3

But it would be rare for both parents to not be working. I appreciate there are SAHMs, but the father would be in work.

You know that’s bollocks right?

As a single parent to a disabled child I’d have given my right arm for wrap around care that could meet need so I could build a career and have higher future job prospects.

As it is whilst raising that child I’ve done a degree and worked my way up in my current role to a point I can’t earn more than £35k a year as in my career line those jobs don’t exist.

Im a highly educated intelligent woman and could have found employment and training to be a higher rate tax payer.

Unfortunately the system doesn’t allow that.

But they’ll pay me £200 a month carers (and take most of it away due to my earnings) as compensation.

ease don’t blame parents for the system and make assumptions.

Life throws enough barriers out way as it is.

This feels like benefits bashing to me too.

I have autoimmune conditions, I'm on 3 different monthly injections that make me feel awful, I take 4x the daily recommended antihistamines off label by immunology that are incredibly sedating. I spend alot of time in the bath for chronic hives and struggling to walk up the stairs - usually crawl to the bathroom to wash.

My last pregnancy triggered all of the illness before anyone says "why did you have more kids" he was a non-consensual pregnancy where I fled domestic violence to safeguard him. And I don't believe in abortions for myself personally. And unfortunately due to how sick I was during the pregnancy, he was born premature, spent time in NICU and now can't eat solid food, has a multitude of non Ige mediated food allergies.

But I've written a book, I continue my studies, I'm working through my qualification ladder in the hopes to open my own alternative education provision for SEND children one day.

I do claim PIP, DLA for him and get the disabled child element on UC.

But I suppose I'm just lazy though and should do better.

I don't live in fear of losing benefits I don't get. I fund all my caring myself. I know how fortunate I am, and count myself privileged, to have an income that excludes me from these things without needing benefits like families with lower incomes may need. Caring is very valuable work to society and saves the taxpayer a pile.

Report them if you don't believe their claims are genuine

And what you and DH will be saving the system by doing g the care yourself ffaaaarrrrrr outweighs what it would cost for them to provide the care.

and you’re doing it alone, unsupported I’m sure.

OP you are not allowed to say this on Mumsnet.

There are an awful lot of people on here with children with additional needs who live in fear of their benefits being cut off and come out fighting, even when you are not talking them, but about people who abuse the system or do not look beyond it.

But you are, of course, right. There are thousands and thousands of people for whom claiming benefits is all they know, and all they aspire to. Who have or perhaps when they were younger the potential to do more, but along with their families are in the benefits rut with no real desire to get out or because they have behavioural issues.

We all know people like this. My husband’s uncle and cousins have variously faked whiplash injuries and claimed anxiety/agoraphobia whilst simultaneously doing the odd bit of work (window cleaning) cash in hand. It is rife in their community.

You know more than most about this but you will be shot down regardless because of the levels of defensiveness on here.

It is nonetheless an important issue which needs to be tackled - we simply cannot afford as a country to have a smaller and smaller pool of net contributors funding this lifestyle. Those who shoot these concerns down never have a constructive or sensible solution to the problem - they just want the money to carry on flowing. But where will it come from?

It also doesnt meanbno one is working.

Family cohorts differ dependent on the “type” of special educational school IME.

MLD schools for moderate learning disability tend to have a higher percentage of poorly educated parents (either through life circumstance or genetic LD) and therefore higher need with regards the support to access community and services.

SLD/PMLD schools for the most severe need tend to have the highest degree of parental variation as many students who attend have severe brain damage from birth injury or random genetic variations and that isnt a genetic factor.

Independent specialist schools tend to have a higher degree of professional and highly educated parents who could afford to get independent reports and better resources to fight the system. Plus a lot of the children are LAC who are placed in more professional families in the first place or living in social care run homes or privately run social care homes.

The problem -IMO - isn’t the system or the benefits. It’s the back of recognition about why the inequities happen and societal change to support that changing.

Me and dh are on UC as carers and have 3 dc all getting highest rates DLA/PIP. There’s no other way for us to survive and meet their needs.

Me neither. The SEN coffee morning I try to attend (because I'm full time employed) is full of professionals or working women. Attendance is variable because, guess what, like me, many can only occasionally attend due to work!

Peoole have to meet very specific criteris to qualify for PIP
Just because a person has a chronic condtim it doesnt make them automatially eligible.

If you would rather the government pays out tens to hundreds of thousands of dollars in services rather than pay a pittance in comparison in carers' allowance, you've got something else going on than economic sensibility. Carers save the taxpayer millions. If they have to give up work to help care instead of leaving it to the state for net loss to the state, it's a bargain at the price.

MN why are there several threads of blant discrimination against ND/disabled kids and people? Why are you allowing it?

I work in a leadership position in education and work in one of the most deprived areas of the country.

The outdated and often condescending “parenting classes” or courses councils and some schools run for families are usually tone deaf and rude. The parents on OPs “course” will have been bored because it was boring. We run support sessions for families where they share ideas with each other and we ensure empathy, understand and humility. We have a waiting list. Don’t talk at people, work with them.

Without doubt there are individuals and families who game the benefits system. My best friend has debilitating MS but has been refused PIP twice as she’s fiercely independent. I know at least 10 families who happily tell anyone who will listen they fake or exaggerate mental health conditions to get PIP, UC, cars and DLA. I know one single, child free girl who gets £1800 a month by claiming she’s too anxious to go outside. She’s currently in Greece partying and using her second Facebook account to avoid being caught by DWP.

both things can be true - people game benefits but OP clearly doesn’t understand the struggles of those that don’t.

Whole family will be on UC because it is a joint claim.

Its 1.9%. And don't forget, that's families who've not worked yet. So will include people who will go on to work when their children are older.
To gauge how significant an issue this is, you'd need a long term study that demonstrated life long worklessness and all family member worklessness throughout entire childhood. A three year old with no working adults in their family could well become the 13 year old of working parents.

Not benefit bashing I think.

Just fully ableist shit from someone who thinks that if you’re chronically ill, disabled, you shouldn’t have children.
One that hasn’t noticed the fact that those children probably ended up as child carer due to the lack of support.

Yay, let blame parents who dare being ill and have a child (never mind if they got ill after the children weee born )