Dogs in restaurants - I am done!

These figures must be decades old. They do not reflect a true picture of how many eating places allow dogs now. I could't name a single place where dogs are not allowed.

You're confused. I was not originally making that point at all.

The idea that people should exist in some sort of segregation when they go out is not practical nor right. And it should not be a case of go somewhere, do research etc. You go out sometimes on the spur of the moment. The places you go to might not have a wide range of places to choose from.
I think some dog owners are oblivious or choose not to see some of the issues that can prevail. Ditto some parents with some children.

People who are responsible with their dogs, I don’t think people have an issue with.
It is the issues that can exist when they don’t. Many people have seen the programmes of people unable to control their dogs in public and have to have help in training them. Such dog owners exist. It spoils things for everyone. Other dog owners included.
Some I think are just thoughtless.
Those extendable leads in a cafe are can be a trip hazard. I have seen wait staff have to negotiate them outside in a pub. And those who let their dog loose and pester other diners. I have seen two alsatians fighting in a pub. A Rottweiler in a breakfast area of a hotel. I have seen dogs approach a buggy with a child in before the parents realise. I have been turned out of seats that I had booked because three medium sized dogs were sitting there. I was told to sit elsewhere. I have seen an unruly dog in a National Trust really spoil it for other dog owners and non dog owners because they could not behave.

If you go to a dog friendly cafe or pub it does not exempt you from ensuring you consider other people around you, with a dog or not.

All it takes is some consideration and awareness. Nothing that should be too strange.

These figures are from a survey of over 50,000 businesses conducted by Dojo in 2022-23.

Which is far too small to reflect reality. And three to four years out of date. What it was based on I have no idea. But anybody who goes out will be able to see the figures are not resembling any sort of reality.

A sample of >50,000 is huge.

Yes, it is three to four years old.

If you have any more current data (data, not anecdotes), I would be very happy to have a look.

@ToKittyornottoKitty- are dog owners on this thread that don't want dogs everywhere 'dog haters' then??

There are plenty of people who have felt uncomfortable in pubs, cafes.
And plenty who have had a meal spoilt by children.

Pointing and distracting a discussion to mention issues with children will not sort or resolve issues relating to dogs. It is a different topic.

'It's not the dog's fault. It's the owners' fault, but that doesn't mitigate the unpleasantness of their minging presence in places where people eat.'

Exactly. I feel sorry for the dogs. Some owners seem to think just because they aren't whimpering then they are happy.

A pp said she shared regular ice cream with her dog. Dogs should not eat regular icecream. She then went all oops well it likes onion gravy too. Onions are toxic for dogs.

There really should be some kind of intelligence assessment needed before dog ownership is allowed but sadly anyone can have one. Anyone can feed them whatever crap they like and anyone can shove them in corners or under tables in loud, busy places.

We all need to speak up. To business owners who may review their policy if enough complain and to some dog owners who don't seem to have a clue about the welfare of their pet.

It is not huge. I have no idea on what basis the data was collected. But it simply cannot be reflective of reality. There are thousands of pubs, cafes and restaurants.
It is not for me to provide statistics. I will ask questions if statistics that do not seem right.

I am also a customer and know other customers.
There are many people on this thread who do not have dogs who don't mind them in restaurants at all.
Also many dog owners who have explained that their dogs enjoy being in restaurants/cafes/pubs with them. Responsible dog owners know when their dog is stressed or unhappy.
You seem to be insistent that any dog that is not at home or out walking must be distressed and the owner is being cruel.

The cafe I went to with my dog was part of the walk. It would have made no sense to take her home and do the walk again on my own. It was our routine for years.

Why are you claiming to speak for every single other human being on this matter, and also other people's dog? it is getting tiresome, as is the tired phrase of "just because you can does not mean you should". That one should fuck off back to the Covid board

We have been to cafes that have specific tables allocated as pet friendly. The remaining tables are not pet friendly - which seems to work. To be fair in Australia pet friendly usually = outdoor. Not practical in the UK climate. So less of a problem here.

A sample of over 50,000 is large (some would say very large) by almost any metric you care to name in research standards.

If they'd surveyed 50, you might have a point.

If you don't believe it's reflective of reality then I'm happy to await your survey of businesses. Shall we say 5 million or whatever you feel is statistically significant?

I know I'll become unpopular for this but anyway.

I part own 3 restaurants. Since allowing dogs we have not only been saved from bankruptcy but pay in excess of £200k a year extra in tax from our latest site. We put pictures of dogs on the wall and people bloody love it. I've had ONE complaint when a dog did a wee which I was annoyed about too. Otherwise, it's been a popular move for us.

Speaking to other establishments, those that have gone under do not allow dogs.

I also have a lot more money myself. Have bought a sports car. All good

I don’t think asking the same question is helpful to the discussion. I have already replied to it.

You're not alone. The "paw pound" is a pretty significant phenomenon at the moment.

Businesses that switch to allowing dogs report a 20-50% boost in profits and footfall. Dog owners also tend to have longer and more valuable occupancy (i.e. they stay and spend more).

I rarely take my dog to a pub or cafe but most round us are dog-friendly. I really don’t recognize the dog-running-amok-and-in-people’s-food-and-faces scenarios that people are describing. The worst I’ve come across are yappy small dogs making a noise, which is annoying but usually short-lived and certainly no worse than small child noise. The normally just sit under or near the tables and there is enough space for them not to bother anyone else. I can see how it’s a problem for those with allergies but don’t think I’ve ever seen one that could be described as ruining other peoples’ meals.

People with allergies or phobias can't just 'suck it up'. Why such a lack of sympathy?

I understand your dog is too anxious to be left alone but surely plenty of dogs can be? I just don't buy that most dog owners are as constrained as people with allergies or phobias.

Do you think the only people who want to go to dog free cafes are 'dog haters'?

Childish. Disagreement is not 'hate' necessarily.

Imo some pps say this because it avoids the issue that many who want dog free places are allergic or phobic, not simply 'haters'.

Yes, there have been some nasty posts but throwing around words like 'hate' and 'abuse' just deflects from real issues and implies pps using those words can't take reasoned criticism of the current dog situation.

This.

I know my dogs. I've owned dogs all of my life. I've worked professionally with dogs. If my dogs are stressed, I know about it, and I act.

Of the 5 I have now, 1 enjoys people watching. 1 is just happy to be with you, no matter where you are or what you're doing; if she's with you, she is happy, and 1 is just a really chilled dog who takes everything in her stride, whilst simulatenously being a massive drama queen who is frequently rushed to the vets on the brink of death only for us to learn she's stubbed her toe.

Of the two problematic ones, I did initially think the demonic entity had fear aggression, and I still believe this is how it started; however, it is now an attention-seeking behaviour. He knows if he starts behaving like a rabid Hellbeast, someone will pick him up and cuddle him to calm him. It is something we're working on.

The anxious one is anxious no matter where he is, and it's not healthy for him or me to spend 24/7 hiding under my duvet while DD2 brings us food, as much as we both like it to be, so we're working to find the right balance of medication to keep him sedate enough to manage his anxiety but alert enough to learn. In the meantime, it really is a case of deciding where he will be the least anxious, which is usually with me, wherever that may be.

Off topic but PSA: if a cute, fluffy puppy is returned to a breeder 4 times in 6 months and then offered to you for free, it is for a reason, and that reason is that it is not a puppy; it is a demonically possessed beast sent from the deepest corners of Hell to cause fear and misery to all of humanity. The cuteness is a trick.

This!

Do you have any means of proving it's only a 'minority' that mind? I'm sceptical.

Well, ChatGPT's never wrong, as we all know. 🙄

The profit increase businesses are reporting is proof. There would be no increase in profit if the majority were unhappy with the change.