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Original poster

Lucy Letby (2)

644 replies

Oftenaddled · 30/07/2026 10:01

Not only the second thread of course, but maybe with them filling so fast it is time to start numbering them?

OP posts:
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12
PinkTonic · 07/08/2026 18:09

I was reading on X earlier the transcript of when Ben Myers was asking about how the Lucy did it chart was compiled. Jeez, why on earth do they persist in talking utter bollocks using such flowery language, when it even causes them to confuse and misinterpret each other! It could have taken half the time if they asked direct questions and got direct answers.

And that comment from the judge. Why not tell the idiot to answer the question if you know he’s going round in circles. I know BM did sometimes, but Evans was allowed to answer back.

Firefly1987 · 07/08/2026 18:46

Dolphin37 · 07/08/2026 17:17

they know about serial killers and female killers. They have no trouble believing she did it

I don't think anyone doesn't "know about serial killers and female killers" (that they exist), but we also know how rare they are (on the order of 1 in a million nurses), relative to alternate explanations (misdiagnoses and medical errors). So I need correspondingly strong proof that it's indeed the rare thing. If a kid tell me he saw a tiger on the street, I'll be very skeptical -- not because I don't know about tigers, but because fabulist kids / actors in costume / AI videos are so much more common than roaming tigers. And that's when the cost of error is just getting fooled by a kid, rather than a wrongful life sentence + letting health system errors go unfixed + wasting millions on useless inquiry + worsening the nursing shortage by scaring people from nursing.

So the baseline picture leads to the need for rock-solid proof, and instead we get things like "when you know, you know" or "baby collapsed, died" from the main medical expert. Or diagnosis by exclusion, when we know that doctors missing some pathology is quite common: e.g. one mother in the case was not given antibiotics for hours, presumably because doctors "excluded" infection. It's the big mismatch between the level of proof needed, and the type of proof offered, that's the core problem with this case.

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What sort of stats did you come up with for Erin Patterson? After all no one actually saw her do anything wrong, the test results might not have been accurate and all her guests could've just got sick by coincidence. I mean that's much more likely than a mass killer poisoning her dinner guests right? It's practically unheard of.

Firefly1987 · 07/08/2026 18:50

EyeLevelStick · 07/08/2026 06:09

You have dodged Frequency’s question.

Who in that courtroom was competent to “test” and/or dismiss the idea that a mother with antiphospholipid syndrome might pass antibodies to her unborn child? We know the child didn’t have the disease, but we don’t know whether or not antibodies were passed on.

And don’t come back with anything about plumbers. The lack of defence experts is part of the problem here, likely caused by the structuring of the trial.

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Expert Testimony Details

  • Case Review: Professor Kinsey was asked to analyze the medical and blood records for specific infants, including Child A, Child B, and Child E. 1, 2]
  • Findings on Child E: She testified that a catastrophic bleed suffered by Child E before death was "not spontaneous" and was unassociated with any pre-existing natural condition or clotting disorder. 1]
  • Blood Counts and Conditions: She informed the court that underlying maternal conditions or blood disorders did not affect the twins (Child A and Child B), and their blood counts remained normal during their time on the unit. 1]
  • Skin Discoloration: Professor Kinsey noted that unusual descriptions of skin patterns—such as irregular pink areas over a blue-grey background observed during Child A's collapse—supported concerns of unnatural clinical events like air embolism
Lucy Letby

Lucy Letby: Baby's catastrophic bleed not spontaneous, trial told

A blood expert tells nurse Lucy Letby's murder trial a baby's internal bleed was "not spontaneous".

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-merseyside-63798909

Original poster
Oftenaddled · 07/08/2026 21:23

Firefly1987 · 07/08/2026 18:50

Expert Testimony Details

  • Case Review: Professor Kinsey was asked to analyze the medical and blood records for specific infants, including Child A, Child B, and Child E. 1, 2]
  • Findings on Child E: She testified that a catastrophic bleed suffered by Child E before death was "not spontaneous" and was unassociated with any pre-existing natural condition or clotting disorder. 1]
  • Blood Counts and Conditions: She informed the court that underlying maternal conditions or blood disorders did not affect the twins (Child A and Child B), and their blood counts remained normal during their time on the unit. 1]
  • Skin Discoloration: Professor Kinsey noted that unusual descriptions of skin patterns—such as irregular pink areas over a blue-grey background observed during Child A's collapse—supported concerns of unnatural clinical events like air embolism
Show quote history

When you read the sources your summary has linked there, you see that these headlines are misleading.

For the first two (citation 1)

'Ben Myers KC, defending, said her comments on Child E established only that the bleed was not a result of "a blood abnormality" and did not rule out the possibility that he could have had a gastro-intestinal haemorrhage. He added her observations did "not assist with what the cause of death actually was".
The professor agreed that all three suggestions were correct".

She was confirming that there was no spontaneous rupture of the blood vessels (as with nosebleeds) not that the bleeding couldn't have a natural cause like a gastro-intestinal haemorrhage.

Her testimony also confirmed that neither child had an abnormal blood count. Several of the minor experts cleared up points like this - details that it made sense to check and that nobody has disputed.

As I've posted above, Professor McKinsey told the court that she was not an expert on APS. She also explained that she was relying on the literature for her information on what Lee's sign looked like. She was struck by how well Dr Jayaram's descriptions of baby A's rash fitted descriptions in that literature. She admitted to Ben Myers that she had not realised this description was not in the clinical notes but only in Dr Jayaram's much later police interview. (This of course came long after he had discovered the same literature himself).

OP posts:
Viviennemary · 10/08/2026 16:29

FrippEnos · 30/07/2026 22:59

What will your response be if it is found that its a miscarriage of justice?

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Highly unlikely.

ByAzureMentor · 10/08/2026 18:02

Viviennemary · 10/08/2026 16:29

Highly unlikely.

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It is absolutely certain LL will be released there is no doubt about it.

How can they keep someone in jail when the whole country knows she is completely innocent ?

I just wonder what happens next will she live here or go abroad ?
Does Evans have to pay back every penny ?
Who knew she was innocent but played along for the £££

Firefly1987 · 10/08/2026 19:15

@ByAzureMentor If that's genuinely what you believe I think you'll be in for a shock one day. She is never getting out.

FrippEnos · 10/08/2026 19:24

Viviennemary · 10/08/2026 16:29

Highly unlikely.

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But that doesn't answer the question.

ByAzureMentor · 10/08/2026 19:25

Firefly1987 · 10/08/2026 19:15

@ByAzureMentor If that's genuinely what you believe I think you'll be in for a shock one day. She is never getting out.

They can longer ignore it the support she has is incredible and every day more and more of the truth about the case or the hosptials is coming out.

I do think they will find a way to quickly move on governments are good at that but she has to get out the only person left saying guilty seems to be you.

Even Moritz and Hull seem to have bolted.

Original poster
Oftenaddled · 10/08/2026 19:46

fosterma · 10/08/2026 19:38

Dr A has passed away - sounds like he was still fairly young

https://www.lbc.co.uk/article/married-doctor-described-lucy-letbys-boyfriend-dies-5Hjdfpx_2/

That's very sad, so young.

He is somebody who probably seems important to the story of what happened if you believe Lucy Letby was guilty. The prosecution threw out the accusation she was attacking babies to get his attention. That never made much sense, because he only started in Chester in late 2015, after five babies I think, maybe four, had already died.

If she wasn't guilty, he was very much a junior player on the ward, with little or nothing to do with most of the events. He passed on confidential information, but nothing that could have made a difference to her alleged crimes.

I hope his family won't be bothered too much by the press.
.

OP posts:
Firefly1987 · 10/08/2026 20:35

ByAzureMentor · 10/08/2026 19:25

They can longer ignore it the support she has is incredible and every day more and more of the truth about the case or the hosptials is coming out.

I do think they will find a way to quickly move on governments are good at that but she has to get out the only person left saying guilty seems to be you.

Even Moritz and Hull seem to have bolted.

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The law doesn't care what uninformed people on social media think thankfully or we'd all be in trouble.

The actual serious people in this case know she's guilty and not getting out. It's only the losers screaming from the rooftops.

FrippEnos · 10/08/2026 20:48

Firefly1987

Slipping back to name calling again.
I had hoped that you had got past that.

isthisaplum · 10/08/2026 20:50

The actual serious people in this case know she’s guilty

@Firefly1987 if i play devils advocate for a moment and accept that the original verdict was most probably correct and that she is guilty and rightly is in prison for this - if I put my personal view totally to one side and go along with this, I still couldn’t agree with the above statement.

There have been numerous ‘serious people’ transcending political viewpoints, race, religion, age, levels of education and gender. It is unusual, shall we say, for the telegraph and the sun, or even the telegraph and the guardian, to agree. We’ve had the panel, we’ve had Jeremy hunt, we’ve had a number of MPs, we’ve had NHS staff (including her own colleagues) and the House of Lords - even parents of children she treated. It really isn’t a few isolated bonkers people. And I’d have to concede that even if my personal view was that she is guilty.

Iamateadrinker · 10/08/2026 20:55

I don't consider myself a " loser"
Just someone with a different opinion to you @Firefly1987

Original poster
Oftenaddled · 10/08/2026 21:02

Has there ever been a case with this level of expert support arguing for a miscarriage of justice, in the UK criminal system?

Has there ever been a case with half this amount of support that hasn't turned out to be a miscarriage of justice, in the UK? (Genuine question. I have vague memories of reading about one or two cases where campaigners got things wrong, but I can't remember details or any comparable furore around them).

OP posts:
isthisaplum · 10/08/2026 21:04

I can’t think of one, for sure. There has been outrage once the MoJ has been exposed but not during, not like this.

kkloo · 10/08/2026 21:05

Firefly1987 · 10/08/2026 20:35

The law doesn't care what uninformed people on social media think thankfully or we'd all be in trouble.

The actual serious people in this case know she's guilty and not getting out. It's only the losers screaming from the rooftops.

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Trump is back.

Sorry I can remember which poster originally spotted this to credit you but it's so accurate 😂

isthisaplum · 10/08/2026 21:06

It is interesting to think what the timeframe is likely to be - does anybody have any guesses?

kkloo · 10/08/2026 21:07

https://www.cheshire.police.uk/news/cheshire/news/articles/2026/8/chief-constable-mark-roberts-announces-retirement/

I wonder who will take the job! Should be a rough ride!

ByAzureMentor · 10/08/2026 21:22

Firefly1987 · 10/08/2026 20:35

The law doesn't care what uninformed people on social media think thankfully or we'd all be in trouble.

The actual serious people in this case know she's guilty and not getting out. It's only the losers screaming from the rooftops.

Show quote history

We are all losers in modern Britain my friend but that is for another thread.

I think i know quite a lot about the subject but obviously not everything, i watch youtube and not the government tv channels which have been shameful. You will know which people i like to listen to on there they know their stuff and can explain for the rest of us that find it all a bit confusing at times.

Who are the actual serious people you speak of ?
The biased judge, the crazy welshman, the hopeless coppers like Hughes, the journos that celebrated the verdict but no longer cover the story ?

The government absolutely care what the people think and the support this innocent young woman has makes covering it up pretty much impossible, she is coming home you just have to deal with it.

Firefly1987 · 10/08/2026 21:38

isthisaplum · 10/08/2026 20:50

The actual serious people in this case know she’s guilty

@Firefly1987 if i play devils advocate for a moment and accept that the original verdict was most probably correct and that she is guilty and rightly is in prison for this - if I put my personal view totally to one side and go along with this, I still couldn’t agree with the above statement.

There have been numerous ‘serious people’ transcending political viewpoints, race, religion, age, levels of education and gender. It is unusual, shall we say, for the telegraph and the sun, or even the telegraph and the guardian, to agree. We’ve had the panel, we’ve had Jeremy hunt, we’ve had a number of MPs, we’ve had NHS staff (including her own colleagues) and the House of Lords - even parents of children she treated. It really isn’t a few isolated bonkers people. And I’d have to concede that even if my personal view was that she is guilty.

Well they're wrong aren't they, and terrible judges of character. You do know hoards of people came out in support of Harold Shipman at first? Some of whom had lost more than one family member to him?

Who of her own colleagues has come out in support of her except that Janet woman who didn't even work closely with her? The way she threw others under the bus as being less experienced than her I seriously doubt anyone she worked with has supported her.

isthisaplum · 10/08/2026 21:40

Well they're wrong aren't they, and terrible judges of character

I don’t believe they are ‘wrong.’ I believe they have raised valid concerns.

Her character is not on trial. Her crimes are; if indeed there were any crimes.

Original poster
Oftenaddled · 10/08/2026 21:40

kkloo · 10/08/2026 21:07

https://www.cheshire.police.uk/news/cheshire/news/articles/2026/8/chief-constable-mark-roberts-announces-retirement/

I wonder who will take the job! Should be a rough ride!

Interesting that he wanted to stay on but wasn't allowed to. He has been resolutely supportive of Operation Hummingbird. He wrote David Davis a letter (leaked to the press) that was bizarrely inaccurate, after Davis criticized the police investigation in Parliament.

There have been a number of alleged leaks from the police investigation that are potentially very damaging: the early list of cases that Evans found suspicious where Lucy Letby wasn't on shift; the e-mail from Dr Jayaram mentioning that Lucy Letby called him to baby K's cot; the file of emails and reports showing Evans and the police building the case together: and most recently Dr Jayaram's interview with the police where they discussed changing the interpretation of the data. The last happened very much under Roberts's watch.

This announcement comes hot on the heels of that leak, and of the CPS confirmation that they won't be pressing further charges, which is surely the final gasp of Operation Hummingbird. If there is any prospect of the police scrutinising that operation from within, that will presumably happen much more easily under new leadership

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isthisaplum · 10/08/2026 21:41

I have been trying to find information on the approximate age of Paul Hughes as I am fairly certain I knew him many years ago. I can’t say for sure because he had more hair then!

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