Please or to access all these features

AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Lucy Letby (2)

644 replies

Oftenaddled · 30/07/2026 10:01

Not only the second thread of course, but maybe with them filling so fast it is time to start numbering them?

OP posts:
Thread gallery
12
Dolphin37 · 16/09/2026 19:36

nomas · 16/09/2026 19:23

Those two statements have completely different meanings.

Something floored me: surprised, shocked, or amazed by something that you did not know what to say or do

Dad was on the floor crying: he was physically on the floor, crying

Edited

People do use it non-literally, e.g.

"Someone with this avi just liked my tweet, and I’m on the floor crying 😭😭😭😭😭"

One of the worst songs on here and had me on the floor crying.

This one had me on the floor crying.

nomas · 16/09/2026 19:40

Those contexts sound very inappropriate for Letby's situation though, where a man has just lost his baby.

Those links are about something humorous or bad quality.

kkloo · 16/09/2026 19:53

FrippEnos · 16/09/2026 18:21

It does seem to be that way.

But then it started from a place of bias.

And I'm not sure how anybody can trust an enquiry that doesn't highlight the fact that the consultants where not on the ward everyday.

The inquiry is an absolute load of nonsense and inevitably one day there will have to be an inquiry on the substandard care that led to these babies deaths, and probably another one on how the refusal to look at the substandard care led to all of this happening.

Firefly1987 · 16/09/2026 20:04

"Letby ignored management instructions when she disliked them and had shouted at her manager." Not really a massive surprise, typical narcissist-rules are for other people. Shouting at her manager though, so much for the meek, mild wouldn't hurt a fly and got bullied by everyone narrative.

Of course her most ardent supporters will stand by her no matter what. I have no idea why.

Oftenaddled · 16/09/2026 20:14

Glowingup · 16/09/2026 19:31

I suggest you reacquaint yourself with the timeline because there was a long period when the managers did not give a shite and did everything in their power to protect Lucy, vowing to get her back on the ward. But yeah she was scapegoated 🙄

Letby was taken off the ward within a week of the downgrade, while the managers made arrangements about the external reviews. Prior to that, the managers requested and received copies of internal reviews of the deaths without the consultants offering them. This review omitted the concern about Lucy Letby. Certainly managers and consultants disagreed about Lucy Letby's involvement from May 2016, but there is no sign they weren't concerned about the deaths

OP posts:
Oftenaddled · 16/09/2026 20:21

Glowingup · 16/09/2026 19:29

If it quacks like a duck and all that. You can literally find experts to say absolutely anything. As this defence panel of experts is finding out and some of them don’t want to go as far as others do evidently.

I'm pointing out the article you cite is just objectively wrong. There are known alternative explanations to insulin poisoning with results such as these. That's not disputed, legally or medically. The question is how likely different explanations are in different circumstances.

If it quacks like a duck isn't really the standard of proof you're looking for, in medicine or law!

OP posts:
Viviennemary · 16/09/2026 20:21

ByAzureMentor · 15/09/2026 18:36

So why are people that say she is guilty terrified of a re-trial where she does have a defence that is not just a plumber ?

The trial was shambolic it was absolutely outrageous the garbage they talked it lasted ages so the jury got fed up and just went along with the judge and evans.

Had she been guilty there would be a/ evidence b/ no need for it to last so long.

In any case the police wanted her prosecuted for crimes carried out at another hospital. But CPS said not enough evidence. She's guilty. End of.

nomas · 16/09/2026 20:26

Firefly1987 · 16/09/2026 20:04

"Letby ignored management instructions when she disliked them and had shouted at her manager." Not really a massive surprise, typical narcissist-rules are for other people. Shouting at her manager though, so much for the meek, mild wouldn't hurt a fly and got bullied by everyone narrative.

Of course her most ardent supporters will stand by her no matter what. I have no idea why.

I think bringing in her parents to formal workplace meetings about her removal from the neonatal unit was shocking.

Even the chief executive was intimidated by her father and his threats.

Not evidence of murder of course, but it does show the sense of entitlement and arrogance.

Harold Shipman had a similar parent who put their child Harold on a pedestal. It led to him playing God with his patients lives. And I do believe Lucy did the same with the babies.

Firefly1987 · 16/09/2026 20:26

@Viviennemary exactly, apparently she was being scapegoated at two hospitals then. She just can't catch a break can she...

Oftenaddled · 16/09/2026 20:27

Firefly1987 · 16/09/2026 20:04

"Letby ignored management instructions when she disliked them and had shouted at her manager." Not really a massive surprise, typical narcissist-rules are for other people. Shouting at her manager though, so much for the meek, mild wouldn't hurt a fly and got bullied by everyone narrative.

Of course her most ardent supporters will stand by her no matter what. I have no idea why.

She seems to have shouted at her managers once. I beat her there. I think I have done it three times over my career. Not proud of it, apologised, but it happened. The Thirlwall testimony refers to a few different people shouting - Dr Brearey, Eirian Powell, off the top of my head. But of course, for most, it wasn't asked or relevant. I don't think it's a sensible way to divide goodies from baddies really, especially without any sense of norms on the ward.

I don't think Lucy Letby was perfect, or any of her colleagues. Why would they be? I just don't see any evidence of murder.

OP posts:
Oftenaddled · 16/09/2026 20:30

Firefly1987 · 16/09/2026 20:26

@Viviennemary exactly, apparently she was being scapegoated at two hospitals then. She just can't catch a break can she...

She wasn't scapegoated at Liverpool - nobody there had any problem at all with her. All in Thirlwall. Later someone reviewed events for her shifts alone, across all types is events. The CPS then rejected the resulting requests for charges, very sensibly, on a lack of evidence.

OP posts:
Glowingup · 16/09/2026 20:31

Oftenaddled · 16/09/2026 20:27

She seems to have shouted at her managers once. I beat her there. I think I have done it three times over my career. Not proud of it, apologised, but it happened. The Thirlwall testimony refers to a few different people shouting - Dr Brearey, Eirian Powell, off the top of my head. But of course, for most, it wasn't asked or relevant. I don't think it's a sensible way to divide goodies from baddies really, especially without any sense of norms on the ward.

I don't think Lucy Letby was perfect, or any of her colleagues. Why would they be? I just don't see any evidence of murder.

You shouted at your manager when they told you to do your actual job and not insist that you be involved in what you deemed to be the “exciting” part of your job? Because if you have then I think you’re quite a strange and unbalanced person and not the sort of person that should be working with sick or vulnerable people. Like Lucy Letby.

Glowingup · 16/09/2026 20:33

nomas · 16/09/2026 20:26

I think bringing in her parents to formal workplace meetings about her removal from the neonatal unit was shocking.

Even the chief executive was intimidated by her father and his threats.

Not evidence of murder of course, but it does show the sense of entitlement and arrogance.

Harold Shipman had a similar parent who put their child Harold on a pedestal. It led to him playing God with his patients lives. And I do believe Lucy did the same with the babies.

Edited

It’s worth remembering that Harold Shipman also had ardent supporters when first arrested. Although they kinda piped down after the trial but who knows what would have happened had social media been around. Shame he killed himself or Mark M could have found an expert to say that massive morphine levels is totes normal in elderly people.

Oftenaddled · 16/09/2026 20:35

Glowingup · 16/09/2026 20:31

You shouted at your manager when they told you to do your actual job and not insist that you be involved in what you deemed to be the “exciting” part of your job? Because if you have then I think you’re quite a strange and unbalanced person and not the sort of person that should be working with sick or vulnerable people. Like Lucy Letby.

I think we would need details of the incident in question. In one case I shouted about a vulnerable person whose needs were being ignored. You could certainly frame that the way you said. I shouldn't have shouted. But I was right to object. It is obvious from the dozens of colleagues who testified that Lucy Letby wasn't seen as a problem or shouter generally - sounds as if this was an atypical incident.

OP posts:
nomas · 16/09/2026 20:35

Oftenaddled · 16/09/2026 20:30

She wasn't scapegoated at Liverpool - nobody there had any problem at all with her. All in Thirlwall. Later someone reviewed events for her shifts alone, across all types is events. The CPS then rejected the resulting requests for charges, very sensibly, on a lack of evidence.

I wouldn't say they didn't have a problem with her.

An audit found that babies’ breathing tubes were dislodged on approximately 40% of shifts at Liverpool on which Letby was present, whereas such incidents typically occurred on around 1% of nurse shifts.

However, the evidence was circumstantial, not direct.

Oftenaddled · 16/09/2026 20:38

Glowingup · 16/09/2026 20:33

It’s worth remembering that Harold Shipman also had ardent supporters when first arrested. Although they kinda piped down after the trial but who knows what would have happened had social media been around. Shame he killed himself or Mark M could have found an expert to say that massive morphine levels is totes normal in elderly people.

Nobody here is defending Harold Shipman. As you say, the forensic evidence of criminal activity presented at his trial seems to have reassured people. But each case has to stand on its own merits. We know that miscarriages of justice happen and the fact that Shipman's wasn't one doesn't change that. Lucy Letby's case is of course very different from his.

OP posts:
Oftenaddled · 16/09/2026 20:40

nomas · 16/09/2026 20:35

I wouldn't say they didn't have a problem with her.

An audit found that babies’ breathing tubes were dislodged on approximately 40% of shifts at Liverpool on which Letby was present, whereas such incidents typically occurred on around 1% of nurse shifts.

However, the evidence was circumstantial, not direct.

That's the exercise I described - the one where 40% turned out to be 4 times. And if you will read the Thirlwall evidence, you'll see that none of the staff there had a problem with her. That exercise was carried out after she was arrested, years after her Liverpool stint.

OP posts:
Dolphin37 · 16/09/2026 20:42

nomas · 16/09/2026 19:40

Those contexts sound very inappropriate for Letby's situation though, where a man has just lost his baby.

Those links are about something humorous or bad quality.

Edited

People also use the phrase metaphorically in the context of emotional distress, e.g. inside I was on the floor crying my eyes out , we were on the floor, crying every day But the bigger point that, if Letby really was "repeatedly untruthful in her dealings with friends and colleagues", you'd expect an investigation as exhaustive as this one to find many clear examples, and instead we have just this.

nomas · 16/09/2026 20:47

Oftenaddled · 16/09/2026 20:40

That's the exercise I described - the one where 40% turned out to be 4 times. And if you will read the Thirlwall evidence, you'll see that none of the staff there had a problem with her. That exercise was carried out after she was arrested, years after her Liverpool stint.

I've read that it's actually hard to dislodge a baby's breathing tube. So what might seem a small number of times to some isn't actually small.

nomas · 16/09/2026 20:50

Dolphin37 · 16/09/2026 20:42

People also use the phrase metaphorically in the context of emotional distress, e.g. inside I was on the floor crying my eyes out , we were on the floor, crying every day But the bigger point that, if Letby really was "repeatedly untruthful in her dealings with friends and colleagues", you'd expect an investigation as exhaustive as this one to find many clear examples, and instead we have just this.

I have literally never heard any of my friends or family saying 'I was on the floor crying' metaphorically. But it could happen I guess.

Oftenaddled · 16/09/2026 20:59

nomas · 16/09/2026 20:47

I've read that it's actually hard to dislodge a baby's breathing tube. So what might seem a small number of times to some isn't actually small.

Tubes can be dislodged through vomiting, wriggling, in the course of nursing cares, during parent's time touching or holding, as a child comes off sedatives, as a consequence of poor placement or anatomical abnormalities. You can reduce extubations with good practice and initiatives, but some babies will still be prone to them - and when they do it once, they are more likely to do it again. Four dislodgements, with no evidence Lucy Letby had anything to do with them, really aren't reasonable grounds for accusation.

OP posts:
isthisaplum · 16/09/2026 20:59

It’s possible LL shouted at her manager. It’s possible she was a nightmare to work with: rude, arrogant, a habitual liar and incompetent. It’s possible she fed off the drama of the babies dying, didn’t really care about them or their families and enjoyed gossiping about it with her colleagues.

The only important question is, were crimes committed? Because if we’re locking people up on the basis of them being an arsehole, the prisons will fill up pretty damn quickly!

Glowingup · 16/09/2026 21:02

isthisaplum · 16/09/2026 20:59

It’s possible LL shouted at her manager. It’s possible she was a nightmare to work with: rude, arrogant, a habitual liar and incompetent. It’s possible she fed off the drama of the babies dying, didn’t really care about them or their families and enjoyed gossiping about it with her colleagues.

The only important question is, were crimes committed? Because if we’re locking people up on the basis of them being an arsehole, the prisons will fill up pretty damn quickly!

Well two juries and two sets of judges in the court of appeal seem to think there were crimes 🤷‍♀️ so I’m going to go with them rather than the people who also think the government are implanting microchips in our brains through the Covid vaccine

Firefly1987 · 16/09/2026 21:03

nomas · 16/09/2026 20:47

I've read that it's actually hard to dislodge a baby's breathing tube. So what might seem a small number of times to some isn't actually small.

She only worked 11 shifts there as well. Of course her supporters will say it doesn't give enough of a picture and she might just have been unlucky (again) to get a very wriggly baby each time 🙄even though if that was at all likely the other nurses would've had far more tubes dislodge than 1% (or less) between them.

FrippEnos · 16/09/2026 21:09

nomas · 16/09/2026 20:35

I wouldn't say they didn't have a problem with her.

An audit found that babies’ breathing tubes were dislodged on approximately 40% of shifts at Liverpool on which Letby was present, whereas such incidents typically occurred on around 1% of nurse shifts.

However, the evidence was circumstantial, not direct.

Are these the stats from the tv investigation/inquiry that were proven to be inaccurate?

Swipe left for the next trending thread