Trans nursery workers?

You did sound quite unhinged about the testosterone gel though……….menopausal women work in childcare and presumably just wash their hands after applying oestrogen in the morning.

Education of young women taking excessive amounts of testosterone is very patchy at best. Many of them use private and totally unscrupulous suppliers that are unlikely to provide clear guidance on the health issues likely (by the nature of what they are doing).

Even nursing organisations have pushed advice that it is acceptable for women to take testosterone while pregnant and academics have argued that we are too focused on normal foetal outcomes (ie healthy babies) and women should be allowed to take testosterone when pregnant.

This unbelievably cavalier approach to health issues is quite likely to translate into carelessness with things like testosterone gel and harm to babies in childcare. Enough cases have occurred generally (not specifically taking hormones for appearance/trans purposes) to know the harm of an 18 month old baby showing signs of puberty.

www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4851765-this-is-outrageous-medical-paper-argues-that-wanting-healthy-undeformed-babies-should-be-queered

Its interesting that you failed to identify me as a biological woman from my username that explicitly references I have these common conditions that affect at least 190 million women and girls worldwide

anyone can be a male or female on here, no way of checking from a user name which I think was the other posters point

dd has both of those conditions and i wouldn’t have made that connection…neither would she

That bit stood out to me as an interesting point for reasons that I explained - I have never (and never heard of) experienced arousal from the clothes I was wearing.

Nothing in the rest of your post changed the meaning or context of your claim so I thought it worked quite well as a standalone point. You write quite long posts so I’m not going to pick through every point in each post as that would take a long time (I think you need a lot more work on your stats for eg).

Odd that you jump straight to an insult and an accusation of me bullying you for asking a simple question. I am not bullying you but would appreciate an answer to my question as I am genuinely interested to understand your feelings and experiences in arousal by clothing and whether you think wearing such clothing is acceptable in a childcare setting.

Do you think it’s abusive to imply to small children that they can change sex, when it’s impossible? I think it is!

I think if you’re not comfortable with any aspect of a childcare centre you remove your child. I wouldn’t be happy if gender were being presented as a real, innate thing instead of as the social construct it is. Otherwise the safeguarding should remain unchanged and workers shouldn’t be alone with children.

It’s a bit surprising that there are two when I would have thought the number of trans ppl is very low already, and the number working in childcare surely even lower.

You did sound quite unhinged about the testosterone gel though……….menopausal women work in childcare and presumably just wash their hands after applying oestrogen in the morning.

Do you actually READ and understand the facts of ANYthing?

Anyone with a modicum of intelligence can see that I was in no way defending him, as I said:

Obviously it is a heinous crime to have committed and the fact it relates to an older child and did not take place in a nursery doesnt mean this man should be anywhere near children. Clearly he presents a risk to all children.

I simply dismantled why this example , that you had put forward, didn't actually support your argument that all trans women present a huge and demonstrable risk to children.

As there is little real fact to support your stance you are now resorting to disparaging me and assuming my position on other trans issues.

I have at no point said anything about trans women accessing women's only spaces. My points have all been relating to the OP which was an AIBU that they felt uncomfortable with trans workers being employed in nurseries.

FWIW I completely agree that women deserve safe spaces and that "women only" spaces should exist.

I also believe that there should be separate safe spaces for trans women, trans men and men. I believe everyone has a right to safety and separate spaces can help achieve that.

Being an advocate for all people to be afforded equity and the same freedoms and safety doesn't mean I am a failure to women.

Just because women are an oppressed group, that doesnt give us the right to oppress others, or insist that we are more deserving of protections than other marginalised groups.

I am pro humans. I am pro people not harming others.

I am pro safety and freedom from oppression for all.

I am pro ensuring systems are fair and just and protect the safety of all.

I am pro facts and evidence, not hysteria created from fear of difference and lack of understanding .

Ah yes you cherry picking parts of my post to try to suggest a point I clearly did not make - in a context other than that implied- good one.

Im interested- are you deliberately obtuse or just trying to bully me?

Why dont YOU share details and figures of trans women who have been charged/convicted of sexual offences against nursery children if you are so certain of their prevalence.

I found an alternative link to the article you shared previously, which does not prove the point or risk that you think it does. Did you even read the article or latch onto the headline.

• The man in question does not claim to be a trans woman. He has however previously performed as a drag queen.
• A drag queen is a performer, not an identity - a drag queen doesn't believe they either are a trans woman or a woman - they are playing a part, in the same way an actor playing a doctor does not believe they are a doctor.
• the man was employed as a nursery teacher, but the charge is in relation to an older child and did not take place in the nursery settin.

Obviously it is a heinous crime to have committed and the fact it relates to an older child and did not take place in a nursery doesnt mean this man should be anywhere near children. Clearly he presents a risk to all children.

However this is incredibly weak evidence in support of your argument.

We are in agreement that children need to be kept safe from abuse.

However I firmly believe that children need to be protected from ALL and any staff members who may be potential abusers, regardless of gender identity and biological sex. Insisting that trans women are an automatic threat serves only to overlook the fact that women can also present a threat.

I am a woman and I feel aroused wearing certain clothing - does that mean i am risk to children?

Interesting, neither I or any of my friends have experienced that. Would you wear the clothes that cause you to be aroused at work in a childcare setting?

Do you think it acceptable that if a man is aroused by wearing women’s clothing, they should wear that in a childcare setting?

Some men are aroused by wearing an approximation of children’s clothing. Is that ok to wear in a childcare setting as well?

Safeguarding procedures should be applied stringently to ALL who work with children and vulnerable adults.

Refusing to employ or applying more stringent safeguards for men and transwomen than women, doing the same role, simply because of their physical biology, is literally the definition of gender discrimination.

It is also illegal, and indeed illogical, to refuse to employ trans women in roles that men are eligible to be employed in on the basis that trans women are biologically male.

Children are at risk of abuse from potentially ANY adult, of any gender identity or physical biology within a nursery setting, therefore the key factor is to ensure that no child is left alone with a single adult, especially during changing times, is the key.

The fundamental basis of effective safeguarding involves identifying and preventing any opportunities for abuse.

Following rigorous recruitment processes to ensure known offenders are not employed

AND

ensuring robust safeguarding practices are followed by all so anyone with the desire or intent to abuse a child does not have any opportunity to do so!

And whilst at a lower rate than men, women can and do commit sexual offences against children. To lessen safeguarding for women would be hugely dangerous.

You are misquoting what was actually reported which was

"However, quizzed about the appointment, Endometriosis South Coast said it was 'scientifically inaccurate' to claim only women experienced endometriosis - and that it also affected trans, non-binary and intersex people."

Nowhere does it say specifically trans women! I suspect the omission of any substantiaton was deliberate, as indeed is the indignant interpretation of those intent

Who knows whether that's what was actually said verbatim or has been curtailed. Clearly it needs to be substantiated to explicitly say trans, non-binary and intersex people, who were born with female reproductive systems, can indeed scientifically suffer with endometriosis.

I am not arguing that trans women's biological sex is altered by their gender identity!

I literally couldn't give a shit who is advocating for awareness of this debilitating condition, so long as people ARE.

PS. There are only women. The prefix of ‘biological’ is not required. Just women.

I suggest you explain that to Steph Richards. The Trans identified man who was appointed Government liaison and lobbyist for the Endometriosis South Coast charity.

Steph, who stated “it is scientifically inaccurate to claim only women experience endometriosis”.

But hey - live and let live. You can support these men if you want to. But don’t pretend it is with the aim of reducing oppression for women, when you actually endorse it.

Perhaps consider living up the philosophy behind your username instead.

I know a trans identitifying a that calls himself Jane. Not a woman no matter what he calls himself.

Endo - endometriosis
Adno - adnomyosis
Warrior - a person who fights hard against an issue/for a cause. In this context used tp refer to the fact I live with both of these aforementioned conditions.

BOTH endo and adno are chronic conditions related to the over growth of uterine tissue, and are exclusively experienced by people who have/or have previously had a uterus.

Its interesting that you failed to identify me as a biological woman from my username that explicitly references I have these common conditions that affect at least 190 million women and girls worldwide.

In case no one has told you this, trans woman ARE MEN.

There you go, fixed your stats and 'facts' for you 🤣

Like pp have mentioned, your statistics are based on the whole population. The risk is much much higher in the nursery population.

Can you share with me the statistics on male nursery workers (trans included, because they are also men) that have committed rapes and/or sexual assaults on children compared to female nursery workers? That's only the ones that have been caught and prosecuted, as I have no doubt there are many more out there yet to come to light. I'll wait.

Trans issues aside, there's a very good reason why people are suspicious of any man who wants to work in a nursery with children.

If you don't share those suspicious, you're biological protection signals are out of whack. You probably should consider spending more time with real woman instead of the pretend one's. The real womalen will help you get that natural instinct back.

I think Endo firstly is that you’re username says nothing about your sex - it makes you no more a woman than wearing a dress does.

Whilst we can focus on sexual assault risk given the stats which overwhelmingly demonstrate increased risk, the primary issue is one of belief systems.

You started by saying live and let live, but ignore the requirement for you to submit language, sexed based boundaries and protections in order for TW to apparently ‘live’. I ask you why Men aren’t under pressure to be more accepting TW into their spaces. Why are women the ones who have to make sacrifices for this group of men?

becauses it’s not about their safety - it’s about their validation. One could argue the reason this trans identified male is working in a nursery is because stereotypically it’s ‘woman's work’ and it makes him feel valid.

Whilst painfully ironic that a trans identified young woman has a longing to work with children whilst simultaneously destroying her own fertility at an age she likely cannot understand the true impact of this.

These belief systems have far reaching consequences because, the psychological situation of the individual is not the same so how can society respond to that consistently?

Anyway. The fact remains whilst employers such as nurseries should not discriminate against employing someone because of their ‘transition’ status, Parents can, and should, in order to ensure their children are raised according to their values, morals and safeguarding concerns.

Humans cannot change sex. It is wrong to teach children that they could be born in the wrong body. Until the care pathways change from affirmation to self - acceptance - and feminine men live freely and masculine women live freely -we all have the right to make decisions around who is involved in the care and education of our children, and to challenge it, without prejudice.

Also DBS checks are carried out on the name provided, it is up to the applicant to disclose any previous names.

The other problem is relying on the nursery’s procedures and dbs checks. DBS checks only reveal convictions so while they are a valuable safeguarding tool they do not guarantee that any individual is not a risk. Because of this there are other safeguarding procedures but they do apply differently to men and women because the risk profile is different. Men who dress as women should be treated as the same as other men but they frequently aren’t because of trans ideology that claims they are women - see Girl guides.
a business that promotes and celebrates its trans staff is unlikely to hold them to the same standards as other staff and is unlikely to tell them off for promoting their beliefs.
Safeguarding demands a high level of skepticism and mistrust because it is how we keep the most vulnerable in our society (in this case small children) safe.

Do you understand ‘per capita’ at all @Endoadnowarrior?

the stats are that per capita - so if you take one transwoman and you take one man at random - the transwoman is more likely to commit sexual assault.

your Point seems to be based on the fact that more men overall commit sexual assault that transwomen. Of course they do, there’s more of them. You stat would only be relevant if you’re in a room full of men, and you don’t know if there’s any tw or not.

but that stat isn’t relevant in this situation. In the ops situation, she knows a transwoman will come in contact with her child (if they switch nurseries with oh the franchise). And so the stat that is relevant here is the per capita stat, not the overall population stat.

Safeguarding wise the transman is less of a risk but yes I would be worried about the cultural messaging.

The only people who are vulnerable in this scenario are the children.

panto is so old fashioned and cringe. Honestly don’t know why people still go