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Girl Guides are now GIRL ONLY! - Thread 2

741 replies

CohensDiamondTeeth · 03/12/2025 07:41

I hope no one minds me starting thread 2, I clicked post on my last reply but the thread had filled up.

There was some interesting discussion had, and on the last page @LostMySocks posted that she was thinking of sending a positive email to HQ, which I think sounds like a great idea. Maybe those who support this move could do the same? It would show Girl Guides that people are paying attention.

Link to the first thread here: Girl Guides are now GIRL ONLY! | Mumsnet

The first post of the thread was so good I'm just going to copy and paste it here too. Girl Guides statement is incredibly begrudging in tone.

@Iamwhoiamwhoareyou · Yesterday 14:41

Following April's supreme court ruling, the Girl Guides have FINALLY made a statement and will remain GIRLS ONLY - Finally closing the door on admitting trans members or allowing BOYS to invade female only spaces/camp (which, would be done without informing parents that their daughter would be sharing a room with a biological male!) - I have a previous post in feminism chat for anyone wanting to read the previous thread on this

EMAIL RECEIVED HOT OFF THE PRESS 5 MIN AGO -

As the parent of a young member in Girlguiding, following April’s Supreme Court decision relating to sex and gender, we wanted to give you an update. Many organisations across the country have been facing complex decisions about what it means for girls and women and for the wider communities affected, including us.

Girlguiding’s governing charity documents set out that the membership and people who benefit from our organisation are girls and women. In April, the Supreme Court ruled that girls and women are defined in the Equality Act 2010 by their biological sex at birth.
Following detailed considerations, expert legal advice and input from senior members, young members and our Council, Girlguiding’s Board of Trustees has made the difficult decision that Girlguiding must change Girlguiding must change, following the Supreme Court’s ruling.

From today, 2 December, it is with a heavy heart that we are announcing trans girls and young women will no longer be able to join Girlguiding. This is a decision we would have preferred not to make, and we know that this may be upsetting for members of our community.

There will be no immediate changes for current young members but more information will be shared next week.

Most adult roles, including unit helpers, district helpers and administrative support, are already open to all, so we are confident that no volunteers will have to leave the organisation.

Girlguiding believes strongly in our value of inclusion, and we will continue to support young people and adults in marginalised groups. Over the next few months, we'll explore opportunities to champion this value and actively support young people who need us.

You can find our full statement and updated policy on our website.

We are proud to be the UK’s largest youth organisation dedicated to girls and is focused on creating an equal world for girls and young women. For over 100 years, we have been a welcoming space for all girls to have new experiences, support their communities, build friendships and grow their confidence.

While Girlguiding may feel a little different going forward, these core aims and principles will always be the same. We remain committed to treating everyone with dignity and respect, particularly those from marginalised groups that have felt the biggest impact of this decision.

If you have any immediate questions, we have our special support team in place, to give volunteers, parents and carers the best support we can. We are asking Girlguiding HQ, trading and country/region staff to refer any volunteer or parent who has questions about this announcement. Details below.

Contact [email protected] or 020 7532 3970
All calls/emails will be confidential, and the service will be open 24hrs, 7 days a week.
Find out more, including how this team will handle personal data.

Denise Wilson (Chair of Trustees), Felicity Oswald (CEO) and Tracy Foster (Chief Guide)

https://www.girlguiding.org.uk/globalassets/docs-and-resources/mango-data-privacy-policy.pdf?utm_campaign=1859632_EDI%20update%20for%20parents%202%20December%202025&utm_medium=email&utm_source=dotdigitalemails

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24
Throckmorton · 04/12/2025 21:34

medievalpenny · 04/12/2025 21:32

The latest email suggests they are planning to bow to that and "evolve" their offering into mixed sex. Because they are only paying attention to the anti-women mob.

Show quote history

Oh FFS, the spineless panderers!

medievalpenny · 04/12/2025 21:32

LostMySocks · 04/12/2025 20:46

I cannot believe the number of people piling into the comments sections of various newspaper articles.

There is a complete lack of understanding that girls value a single sex space. So many men and women suggesting that we just become mixed sex.

The funniest thing is that they are suggesting that trans identified girls (aka trans boys) should all rush to sign up as some sort of protest. These girls have always been allowed and welcome to come to Guides. It was even in our old policy.

But again it appears that girls are being the sacrificial lambs. They may not feel comfortable in a club badged 'girl' (although I very much hope that they would) but it's suggested that they should be the ones to protest on behalf of boys.

The latest email suggests they are planning to bow to that and "evolve" their offering into mixed sex. Because they are only paying attention to the anti-women mob.

Helleofabore · 04/12/2025 21:29

Catiette · 04/12/2025 20:59

Dammit, this place is addictive. I'm back already having been reading articles about this and coming across the below. You'll understand why I felt I had to post it here. Enjoy!

Now, TV only from now on this evening! 😅

https://www.theguardian.com/education/2025/sep/23/majority-of-girls-and-young-women-in-uk-alter-behaviour-to-feel-safe-study-finds

A few quotes, in italics. It includes the age ranges under discussion (just). Note the bits in bold.

Girlguiding survey reveals rising fears of harassment, with many avoiding public transport or changing what they wear

Overall, 68% said they changed their everyday behaviour to avoid being sexually harassed, with one in three (32%) altering what they wear. More than a quarter (28%) of the 2,640 respondents said they had avoided places where they used to socialise and one in 10 (12%) changed where they exercise.

The survey also explored misogyny in schools. More than half of girls aged 11 to 18 (58%) said they had experienced male pupils making toxic comments while 32% reported seeing a teacher or member of staff subjected to sexist or misogynistic abuse.

Amanda Azeez, the acting chief executive of Girlguiding, said: “Although a lot of progress has been made in creating an equal world, reading these stark findings makes us realise that in some areas, like the treatment and behaviour that girls’ face, things sadly haven’t changed at all.

The research also highlighted how girls and young women have supported each other, with 70% of 11- to 21-year-olds saying they have stood up for other girls experiencing sexism or misogyny.

I remember reading this. Thank you. I think we should stick it in the stats and polling evidence thread!!

InSlovakiaTheCapitalOfCourseIsBratislava · 04/12/2025 21:24

As well as safeguarding, there is also the benefits of single sex spaces for girls just to be.
theres a reason all girls schools have better attainment, and less aversion to STEM subjects and doing PE. It’s a nice to have, but it is a very nice to have. Opportunities not being high jacked by the male of the species

SolidMam · 04/12/2025 21:23

HumanWrongs · 04/12/2025 20:48

The problem is chiefly one of public space design. Unfortunately, it seems many people here think the problem is the design of my daughter

Interestingly, I think the opposite is the case. Hence why you and your male child are having this problem with society.

Her social group - and female friends - all went to the local Brownies. There is no option for Scouts where we live anyway.

I also think your child should have heard 'No' a few times if this is any indication of nurtured entitlement. If there isn't anything for boys his age, it doesn't mean he gets to demand access to what's available for only girls.

Holy moly - she was invited to join an inclusive group after being on a waiting list. She didn't demand anything.

Also, your casual and assuming critique of my parenting is totally uncalled for.

And yes, most folk on here seem to think the opposite is the case, which is why we've been doing so many laps on this topic. But onwards...

TheodoreisntBeth · 04/12/2025 21:02

SolidMam · 04/12/2025 20:49

It is essentially a blanket ban on males in what will now become a same sex space. If children like my own pose an inherent danger to the other girls, I would genuinely like to know what the DANGER is. I am yet to be convinced that her presence remains a threat or danger to be mitigated.

Show quote history

Yes, a blanket ban on all males is what a women's single sex space means. This is not difficult to comprehend.

And the danger of making an exception for your son (or any other male) is that if you let one male in, you have to let all males in. What is the criteria you think we can use to allow some males in and not all? How nice they seem? I've met more than one predator who seemed really nice, including one who's now serving 18 years for sexually abusing children. How they dress, or if they have changed their name? Look up Sarah Jane Baker or Katie Dolatowski to see how good a system that is. Only let them in if they say they really feel like a girl? Strangely, some people don't always tell the truth and will happily say they feel like a girls if it gets them access to girls. Some males are a danger to women and girls. And you can't tell which are and which aren't until it's too late. So all males have to stay out. Again, this is not difficult to comprehend.

Unless of course you think risking males being sad is worse than risking females being harmed. And given your posts on the thread I actually think you do think that. All the girls whose single sex provision has been taken away because your son wanted it don't feature at all for you, other then as validation props. Gender ideology is misogyny on steroids.

Catiette · 04/12/2025 20:59

Dammit, this place is addictive. I'm back already having been reading articles about this and coming across the below. You'll understand why I felt I had to post it here. Enjoy!

Now, TV only from now on this evening! 😅

https://www.theguardian.com/education/2025/sep/23/majority-of-girls-and-young-women-in-uk-alter-behaviour-to-feel-safe-study-finds

A few quotes, in italics. It includes the age ranges under discussion (just). Note the bits in bold.

Girlguiding survey reveals rising fears of harassment, with many avoiding public transport or changing what they wear

Overall, 68% said they changed their everyday behaviour to avoid being sexually harassed, with one in three (32%) altering what they wear. More than a quarter (28%) of the 2,640 respondents said they had avoided places where they used to socialise and one in 10 (12%) changed where they exercise.

The survey also explored misogyny in schools. More than half of girls aged 11 to 18 (58%) said they had experienced male pupils making toxic comments while 32% reported seeing a teacher or member of staff subjected to sexist or misogynistic abuse.

Amanda Azeez, the acting chief executive of Girlguiding, said: “Although a lot of progress has been made in creating an equal world, reading these stark findings makes us realise that in some areas, like the treatment and behaviour that girls’ face, things sadly haven’t changed at all.

The research also highlighted how girls and young women have supported each other, with 70% of 11- to 21-year-olds saying they have stood up for other girls experiencing sexism or misogyny.

Majority of girls and young women in UK alter behaviour to feel safe, study finds

Girlguiding survey reveals rising fears of harassment, with many avoiding public transport or changing what they wear

https://www.theguardian.com/education/2025/sep/23/majority-of-girls-and-young-women-in-uk-alter-behaviour-to-feel-safe-study-finds

DefinitelyNotDainty · 04/12/2025 20:59

LostMySocks · 04/12/2025 20:46

I cannot believe the number of people piling into the comments sections of various newspaper articles.

There is a complete lack of understanding that girls value a single sex space. So many men and women suggesting that we just become mixed sex.

The funniest thing is that they are suggesting that trans identified girls (aka trans boys) should all rush to sign up as some sort of protest. These girls have always been allowed and welcome to come to Guides. It was even in our old policy.

But again it appears that girls are being the sacrificial lambs. They may not feel comfortable in a club badged 'girl' (although I very much hope that they would) but it's suggested that they should be the ones to protest on behalf of boys.

Same! I’m also amazed at all the scout groups taking the opportunity to announce how inclusive they are…when they are mixed sex?!

HumanWrongs · 04/12/2025 20:56

TheKeatingFive · 04/12/2025 20:42

He's male. Males cannot be accommodated in female only groups.

It is that simple. Your entitlement and selfishness on his behalf is off the charts.

Show quote history

I've heard of parents who raise their children as 'trans' from a very early age because they (not their children) decided to take the regular "You can be anything you want" approach to child development much further. They tend to sound very similar.

AccidentallyWesAnderson · 04/12/2025 20:53

LostMySocks · 04/12/2025 20:46

I cannot believe the number of people piling into the comments sections of various newspaper articles.

There is a complete lack of understanding that girls value a single sex space. So many men and women suggesting that we just become mixed sex.

The funniest thing is that they are suggesting that trans identified girls (aka trans boys) should all rush to sign up as some sort of protest. These girls have always been allowed and welcome to come to Guides. It was even in our old policy.

But again it appears that girls are being the sacrificial lambs. They may not feel comfortable in a club badged 'girl' (although I very much hope that they would) but it's suggested that they should be the ones to protest on behalf of boys.

Same. The amount of ‘well all the trans boys will sign up and it’ll be reversed’ comments are wild. They are girls. Along with ‘what risk does 5 year old boys pose anyway’. Girls are allowed spaces to themselves you idiots! I’ve sat on my hands a lot over the past two days. The fact that adults advocate for ‘trans kids’ is horrific in itself.

TheKeatingFive · 04/12/2025 20:50

SolidMam · 04/12/2025 20:49

It is essentially a blanket ban on males in what will now become a same sex space. If children like my own pose an inherent danger to the other girls, I would genuinely like to know what the DANGER is. I am yet to be convinced that her presence remains a threat or danger to be mitigated.

Show quote history

Yes it is a blanket ban on males in this space. Thats what single sex spaces mean,

SolidMam · 04/12/2025 20:49

Catiette · 04/12/2025 20:19

What, from all our conversation of recent days, on earth makes you think I'd ask that, unless bad faith again?

I literally quote what I'm asking about above - you refer, as I understand it, to generic banS of maleS. The full quote is (my own, irritable, I'll admit, capitals):

"However BLANKET banS of maleS in same sex spaceS does not solve THE ISSUE of abuse."

I mean, you wrote it, for goodness sake! 😂

Edited
Show quote history

It is essentially a blanket ban on males in what will now become a same sex space. If children like my own pose an inherent danger to the other girls, I would genuinely like to know what the DANGER is. I am yet to be convinced that her presence remains a threat or danger to be mitigated.

HumanWrongs · 04/12/2025 20:48

The problem is chiefly one of public space design. Unfortunately, it seems many people here think the problem is the design of my daughter

Interestingly, I think the opposite is the case. Hence why you and your male child are having this problem with society.

Her social group - and female friends - all went to the local Brownies. There is no option for Scouts where we live anyway.

I also think your child should have heard 'No' a few times if this is any indication of nurtured entitlement. If there isn't anything for boys his age, it doesn't mean he gets to demand access to what's available for only girls.

Hoardasurass · 04/12/2025 20:48

SolidMam · 04/12/2025 17:16

Tbh I would say that your sex-based position is a huge over-simplification of a complicated social issue - but we disagree on gender terms, so it's probably a further non-starter of a conversation.

I have experience of safeguarding and have held PVGs, both professionally and as a volunteer. I prioritise inclusion, unless actual safety is the priority - which in many day-to-day cases it isn't.

Show quote history

Then you have failed to understand your safeguarding training and are a danger to women, children and vulnerable adults you are supposed to be safeguarding IMHO

LostMySocks · 04/12/2025 20:46

I cannot believe the number of people piling into the comments sections of various newspaper articles.

There is a complete lack of understanding that girls value a single sex space. So many men and women suggesting that we just become mixed sex.

The funniest thing is that they are suggesting that trans identified girls (aka trans boys) should all rush to sign up as some sort of protest. These girls have always been allowed and welcome to come to Guides. It was even in our old policy.

But again it appears that girls are being the sacrificial lambs. They may not feel comfortable in a club badged 'girl' (although I very much hope that they would) but it's suggested that they should be the ones to protest on behalf of boys.

Catiette · 04/12/2025 20:45

Dammit, wrong sex matters link above - although the one provided is worth a read, too. Intended one here.

https://sex-matters.org/where-sex-matters/single-sex-services/#publications

Off now.

TheKeatingFive · 04/12/2025 20:42

SolidMam · 04/12/2025 20:14

Where are the workings for the threat that my child poses to the other girls in her brownie group?

Show quote history

He's male. Males cannot be accommodated in female only groups.

It is that simple. Your entitlement and selfishness on his behalf is off the charts.

Catiette · 04/12/2025 20:39

This one in response to my posts:

SolidMam · Today 20:14
Where are the workings for the threat that my child poses to the other girls in her brownie group?

...really has left me wondering about goats and bridges again, which I said I wouldn't, so I'm going to head off shortly for chocolate and telly! I'll check in again at some point sometime to see if I got an answer, though. I genuinely have enjoyed the debate, so thank you, all. Stepping back outside fairytale cynicism one last time, Solid, please do me a solid (sorry 🙄) and let me know what you think about my questions - and I'd seriously love it if you did read Invisible Women and Time To Think. Again, as per my earlier posts, I wish you and your child all the best.

lifeturnsonadime · 04/12/2025 20:32

Helleofabore · 04/12/2025 20:28

It is as simple as that.

It is a great opportunity to teach @SolidMam ’s son on respecting the need for female single sex spaces and understand consent from female people.

unfortunately, I suspect this will not happen as I have seen no understanding of consent at all, so if the mother doesn’t understand consent, what chance will the child have ?

Show quote history

Absolutely, or even if she does understand consent, it's irrelevant to her because the male child's wishes are more significant than the needs of the female child.

Catiette · 04/12/2025 20:32

Oh yes - and that one:

I am not talking about lowering safeguarding standards because bans of males do not automatically raise levels of safety.

Meanwhile, in the few minutes since reminders of you what you wrote yourself, here are my references for evidencing the increase in risk presented by males in single-sex spaces. Several countries, governmental, right-wing, left-wing and charitable sources all represented.

"A survey undertaken by the Sunday Times found that 90% of sexual assaults in leisure centres took place in gender-neutral changing rooms, whereas only10% took place in single sex changing rooms."

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/trans-rapists-are-a-danger-in-women-s-jails-5vhgh57pt. (the survey was about public spaces more generally, not limited to jails!)

Also...

https://www.parliament.nsw.gov.au/lcdocs/submissions/88059/0033%20Australian%20Feminists%20for%20Women%27s%20Rights%20(AF4WR).pdf

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2017/jul/30/mixed-sexed-wards-endanger-and-humiliate-women

https://fairplayforwomen.com/unisex-changing-rooms-put-women-in-danger/

https://sex-matters.org/posts/updates/the-truth-about-toilets/

Maybe, given this, you do have time to provide your own evidence against this, and also address the problematic questions about why charities advocate for single sex spaces, after all?

https://www.parliament.nsw.gov.au/lcdocs/submissions/88059/0033%20Australian%20Feminists%20for%20Women's%20Rights%20(AF4WR).pdf

Helleofabore · 04/12/2025 20:28

InterIgnis · 04/12/2025 20:21

Then he doesn’t go to brownies, much like the other boys that also can’t go. That he wants to does not mean that he is entitled to.

Show quote history

It is as simple as that.

It is a great opportunity to teach @SolidMam ’s son on respecting the need for female single sex spaces and understand consent from female people.

unfortunately, I suspect this will not happen as I have seen no understanding of consent at all, so if the mother doesn’t understand consent, what chance will the child have ?

lifeturnsonadime · 04/12/2025 20:26

InterIgnis · 04/12/2025 20:21

Then he doesn’t go to brownies, much like the other boys that also can’t go. That he wants to does not mean that he is entitled to.

Show quote history

Absolutely.

This is so simple. Boys who like to play with girls don't get to enter single sex spaces.

AccidentallyWesAnderson · 04/12/2025 20:24

lifeturnsonadime · 04/12/2025 20:23

I am not talking about lowering safeguarding standards because bans of males do not automatically raise levels of safety.

Yes it does.

I agree with others. You have no understanding of basic safeguarding principles.

Show quote history

Correct.

lifeturnsonadime · 04/12/2025 20:23

SolidMam · 04/12/2025 20:07

Well at least I've broken new ground somewhere, I suppose.

Does it solve the problem though?

I am not talking about lowering safeguarding standards because bans of males do not automatically raise levels of safety.

Show quote history

I am not talking about lowering safeguarding standards because bans of males do not automatically raise levels of safety.

Yes it does.

I agree with others. You have no understanding of basic safeguarding principles.

Helleofabore · 04/12/2025 20:23

crossed with Catiette again.

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