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Girl Guides are now GIRL ONLY! - Thread 2

741 replies

CohensDiamondTeeth · 03/12/2025 07:41

I hope no one minds me starting thread 2, I clicked post on my last reply but the thread had filled up.

There was some interesting discussion had, and on the last page @LostMySocks posted that she was thinking of sending a positive email to HQ, which I think sounds like a great idea. Maybe those who support this move could do the same? It would show Girl Guides that people are paying attention.

Link to the first thread here: Girl Guides are now GIRL ONLY! | Mumsnet

The first post of the thread was so good I'm just going to copy and paste it here too. Girl Guides statement is incredibly begrudging in tone.

@Iamwhoiamwhoareyou · Yesterday 14:41

Following April's supreme court ruling, the Girl Guides have FINALLY made a statement and will remain GIRLS ONLY - Finally closing the door on admitting trans members or allowing BOYS to invade female only spaces/camp (which, would be done without informing parents that their daughter would be sharing a room with a biological male!) - I have a previous post in feminism chat for anyone wanting to read the previous thread on this

EMAIL RECEIVED HOT OFF THE PRESS 5 MIN AGO -

As the parent of a young member in Girlguiding, following April’s Supreme Court decision relating to sex and gender, we wanted to give you an update. Many organisations across the country have been facing complex decisions about what it means for girls and women and for the wider communities affected, including us.

Girlguiding’s governing charity documents set out that the membership and people who benefit from our organisation are girls and women. In April, the Supreme Court ruled that girls and women are defined in the Equality Act 2010 by their biological sex at birth.
Following detailed considerations, expert legal advice and input from senior members, young members and our Council, Girlguiding’s Board of Trustees has made the difficult decision that Girlguiding must change Girlguiding must change, following the Supreme Court’s ruling.

From today, 2 December, it is with a heavy heart that we are announcing trans girls and young women will no longer be able to join Girlguiding. This is a decision we would have preferred not to make, and we know that this may be upsetting for members of our community.

There will be no immediate changes for current young members but more information will be shared next week.

Most adult roles, including unit helpers, district helpers and administrative support, are already open to all, so we are confident that no volunteers will have to leave the organisation.

Girlguiding believes strongly in our value of inclusion, and we will continue to support young people and adults in marginalised groups. Over the next few months, we'll explore opportunities to champion this value and actively support young people who need us.

You can find our full statement and updated policy on our website.

We are proud to be the UK’s largest youth organisation dedicated to girls and is focused on creating an equal world for girls and young women. For over 100 years, we have been a welcoming space for all girls to have new experiences, support their communities, build friendships and grow their confidence.

While Girlguiding may feel a little different going forward, these core aims and principles will always be the same. We remain committed to treating everyone with dignity and respect, particularly those from marginalised groups that have felt the biggest impact of this decision.

If you have any immediate questions, we have our special support team in place, to give volunteers, parents and carers the best support we can. We are asking Girlguiding HQ, trading and country/region staff to refer any volunteer or parent who has questions about this announcement. Details below.

Contact [email protected] or 020 7532 3970
All calls/emails will be confidential, and the service will be open 24hrs, 7 days a week.
Find out more, including how this team will handle personal data.

Denise Wilson (Chair of Trustees), Felicity Oswald (CEO) and Tracy Foster (Chief Guide)

https://www.girlguiding.org.uk/globalassets/docs-and-resources/mango-data-privacy-policy.pdf?utm_campaign=1859632_EDI%20update%20for%20parents%202%20December%202025&utm_medium=email&utm_source=dotdigitalemails

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24
nicepotoftea · 03/12/2025 23:13

Catiette · 03/12/2025 23:11

In contrast, I see the broadening of definitions as potentially empowering of all men and women. More solidarity of women across the division of sex-based rights would be great.

Thank you. Many questions arise from that, but here's just one.

How do you believe that the women and girls of Afghanistan can be "empowered" by western societies "broadening" their words to encompass their oppressors?

And why are Afghan women oppressed in the first place? What is preventing them from just fighting back?

nicepotoftea · 03/12/2025 23:11

SolidMam · 03/12/2025 23:04

The question was about which rights do women need that aren't sex based.

My daughter's (trans) rights are gender based.

But that has absolutely nothing to do with being a woman.

You might as well talk about the right to a fair trial and say that its a woman's right because women have it as well as men.

Women's rights are things like depending on the ability to control fertility to access work and education and needing health care for sex specific conditions.

Catiette · 03/12/2025 23:11

SolidMam · 03/12/2025 22:41

You write very powerfully. Language is so important. I'm so sorry for your sense of loss - and it is more acute for women than men, when it comes to trans issues.

In contrast, I see the broadening of definitions as potentially empowering of all men and women. More solidarity of women across the division of sex-based rights would be great. But if people refuse to see trans girls and women as such then it'll be long road, sadly.

In contrast, I see the broadening of definitions as potentially empowering of all men and women. More solidarity of women across the division of sex-based rights would be great.

Thank you. Many questions arise from that, but here's just one.

How do you believe that the women and girls of Afghanistan can be "empowered" by western societies "broadening" their words to encompass their oppressors?

IsntItDarkOut · 03/12/2025 23:09

SolidMam · 03/12/2025 23:04

The question was about which rights do women need that aren't sex based.

My daughter's (trans) rights are gender based.

Gender based rights do not exist. Gender is just some feeling that some people think has validity. Most people don’t even think about it.
Rights are based on tangible and measurable things like sex. Society has been built around sex.
As much as you would like to dismantle society to satisfy your son, you won’t. Everyone will know he’s male, even if they say something different.

Silverbirchleaf · 03/12/2025 23:07

@SolidMam Serious question, what do you understand by ‘gender’? Girls like pink and cook, boys like blue and play football? Etc

Namelessnelly · 03/12/2025 23:05

SolidMam · 03/12/2025 23:04

The question was about which rights do women need that aren't sex based.

My daughter's (trans) rights are gender based.

But gender isn’t sex so that doesn’t answer the question does it? And the question was also about women. Not males

SolidMam · 03/12/2025 23:04

nicepotoftea · 03/12/2025 23:02

I'm not sure what you mean here. Children do generally have the right to grow in to adults. This doesn't have anything to do with sex.

The question was about which rights do women need that aren't sex based.

My daughter's (trans) rights are gender based.

SolidMam · 03/12/2025 23:02

Namelessnelly · 03/12/2025 22:51

No. Those were your words. You said your son indicated he was really a girl because he pointed at some pictures of girls before he could speak. Are you now seeing how batshit that sounds? He had no clue about “gender”. What he’d pointed at pictures of dogs? Or sheep?
You’ve tried bullying us into calling your son a girl. It must be horrible dealing with a distressed child and knowing you caused the distress. I don’t know how you will fix that but I do wish your son a happy and healthy life.

Thanks. It's a big simplification. I also wrote elsewhere of the gradual transition taking place over a year or so. I really don't think we give children enough credit.

And if you genuinely think I've bullied you rather than debate, I'm sorry. Please feel free to refer my comments to Mumsnet etc.

Love to you and yours too.

nicepotoftea · 03/12/2025 23:02

SolidMam · 03/12/2025 22:57

Well my trans girl needs the right to grow into a trans woman for a start...

I'm not sure what you mean here. Children do generally have the right to grow in to adults. This doesn't have anything to do with sex.

Namelessnelly · 03/12/2025 23:01

SolidMam · 03/12/2025 22:57

Well my trans girl needs the right to grow into a trans woman for a start...

He can grow up to be a male with a trans identity. Nothing is stopping him. That’s grand. He just can’t use female spaces whilst doing so.

SolidMam · 03/12/2025 22:57

nicepotoftea · 03/12/2025 22:56

More solidarity of women across the division of sex-based rights would be great.

What rights do women need that aren't sex based?

Men and women could be identical, (there are different levels of dimorphism in different species) and women would still need sex specific rights to participate equally in society because of their different reproductive role.

Do you think the equality legislation and increased accessibility of contraception in the 70s happened coincidentally?

Well my trans girl needs the right to grow into a trans woman for a start...

nicepotoftea · 03/12/2025 22:56

SolidMam · 03/12/2025 22:41

You write very powerfully. Language is so important. I'm so sorry for your sense of loss - and it is more acute for women than men, when it comes to trans issues.

In contrast, I see the broadening of definitions as potentially empowering of all men and women. More solidarity of women across the division of sex-based rights would be great. But if people refuse to see trans girls and women as such then it'll be long road, sadly.

More solidarity of women across the division of sex-based rights would be great.

What rights do women need that aren't sex based?

Men and women could be identical, (there are different levels of dimorphism in different species) and women would still need sex specific rights to participate equally in society because of their different reproductive role.

Do you think the equality legislation and increased accessibility of contraception in the 70s happened coincidentally?

SolidMam · 03/12/2025 22:56

lifeturnsonadime · 03/12/2025 22:25

This is nonsense.

His sex is male. He may like things that are stereotypically liked by girls but that doesn't make him female/ a girl.

You've really failed him.

What your message should be is that you are a boy and there is no wrong way to be a boy.

This is an interesting one. There is no wrong way to be a boy is a great quote, thank you.

I don't think I've failed her, I've affirmed her in a world that isn't necessarily designed for people like her. She's going to run into conflict because of who she is, certainly. But her gender is not defined by her sex and she knows the difference.

Speculation on her likes and dislikes aren't anything to do with the conversation.

Namelessnelly · 03/12/2025 22:51

SolidMam · 03/12/2025 22:43

This is a misrepresentation of my experience and I hope I'm not bullying anyone? I'm here to debate the issues that affect my family.

No. Those were your words. You said your son indicated he was really a girl because he pointed at some pictures of girls before he could speak. Are you now seeing how batshit that sounds? He had no clue about “gender”. What he’d pointed at pictures of dogs? Or sheep?
You’ve tried bullying us into calling your son a girl. It must be horrible dealing with a distressed child and knowing you caused the distress. I don’t know how you will fix that but I do wish your son a happy and healthy life.

TheKeatingFive · 03/12/2025 22:44

SolidMam · 03/12/2025 22:41

You write very powerfully. Language is so important. I'm so sorry for your sense of loss - and it is more acute for women than men, when it comes to trans issues.

In contrast, I see the broadening of definitions as potentially empowering of all men and women. More solidarity of women across the division of sex-based rights would be great. But if people refuse to see trans girls and women as such then it'll be long road, sadly.

But why would we see 'transwomen' as women? They aren't women, they're men. You're asking us to disbelieve the evidence of our own senses.

SolidMam · 03/12/2025 22:43

Namelessnelly · 03/12/2025 22:38

Apparently you can know before you can speak according to @SolidMam you just wave in the general direction of a picture and that confirms what you are if your parents are trained in Interpreting these signs . It’s like some special magic sense. And it doesn’t matter if your ‘gender” doesn’t match your biological sex, your loving parents will bully you others into pretending you're what they say you are.

This is a misrepresentation of my experience and I hope I'm not bullying anyone? I'm here to debate the issues that affect my family.

SolidMam · 03/12/2025 22:41

Catiette · 03/12/2025 20:45

I genuinely think that awful term "erasure" that gets rolled out so very much is far, far more applicable, by any stretch of the imagination, to women and girls' current predicament.

Surely the group that is closest to being "erased" is the group denied the language necessary to describe and distinguish themselves to advocate for their rights?

And that loss of our language is so dramatic, so absolute, that I really do feel as though I struggle to know how to express what "women" used to mean. It's an awful, genuinely frightening position in which to be, particularly when that language that I've lost is fundamental to my health, physical safety and psychological wellbeing: medical research, single-sex spaces etc.

A transgirl doesn't have the same problem of an inability to describe their needs. They may not have the power to make me use the pronoun they prefer, but they do at least have a word with which to unambiguously describe themselves and their demographic.

You write very powerfully. Language is so important. I'm so sorry for your sense of loss - and it is more acute for women than men, when it comes to trans issues.

In contrast, I see the broadening of definitions as potentially empowering of all men and women. More solidarity of women across the division of sex-based rights would be great. But if people refuse to see trans girls and women as such then it'll be long road, sadly.

Namelessnelly · 03/12/2025 22:38

nicepotoftea · 03/12/2025 22:27

How would one know what one's gender is?

Apparently you can know before you can speak according to @SolidMam you just wave in the general direction of a picture and that confirms what you are if your parents are trained in Interpreting these signs . It’s like some special magic sense. And it doesn’t matter if your ‘gender” doesn’t match your biological sex, your loving parents will bully you others into pretending you're what they say you are.

nicepotoftea · 03/12/2025 22:27

How would one know what one's gender is?

lifeturnsonadime · 03/12/2025 22:25

SolidMam · 03/12/2025 21:49

I do let her know. She can be a boy if that's truly what her gender is. But as I said previously, when it got to a point that our assertions on her gender as a boy became harmful to her, such was her distress, we began to support her more actively. To listen to her. And she hasn't looked back since. If anything we are trying to avoid any feelings of dysphoria with her gender by accepting her as a trans girl

She knows what her sex is and has her dad in the house, so she has an idea about how she will physically develop. She's not an idiot.

This is nonsense.

His sex is male. He may like things that are stereotypically liked by girls but that doesn't make him female/ a girl.

You've really failed him.

What your message should be is that you are a boy and there is no wrong way to be a boy.

Namelessnelly · 03/12/2025 22:09

SolidMam · 03/12/2025 18:26

I am. Boys, trans boys, it's all good.

Yes. Your son is a trans boy. So had no place in a girls single sex organisation. His distress is all on you. You did this to him. It may be harsh but there it is. The fact you think a baby can tell you what sex they are is beyond belief. I hope your son grows up to be happy and healthy but with someone so batshit as a parent, it’ll be tough for him

BundleBoogie · 03/12/2025 22:04

nicepotoftea · 03/12/2025 21:59

What is gender?

Yes, I asked that a few times earlier - still no answer. How strange.

This child has been very confused and misled.

nicepotoftea · 03/12/2025 21:59

SolidMam · 03/12/2025 21:49

I do let her know. She can be a boy if that's truly what her gender is. But as I said previously, when it got to a point that our assertions on her gender as a boy became harmful to her, such was her distress, we began to support her more actively. To listen to her. And she hasn't looked back since. If anything we are trying to avoid any feelings of dysphoria with her gender by accepting her as a trans girl

She knows what her sex is and has her dad in the house, so she has an idea about how she will physically develop. She's not an idiot.

What is gender?

SolidMam · 03/12/2025 21:49

EasternStandard · 03/12/2025 18:32

So why don’t you let your son know he can be a boy and do whatever he likes, dress how he likes?

But be honest about his sex which he can’t change.

I do let her know. She can be a boy if that's truly what her gender is. But as I said previously, when it got to a point that our assertions on her gender as a boy became harmful to her, such was her distress, we began to support her more actively. To listen to her. And she hasn't looked back since. If anything we are trying to avoid any feelings of dysphoria with her gender by accepting her as a trans girl

She knows what her sex is and has her dad in the house, so she has an idea about how she will physically develop. She's not an idiot.

Catiette · 03/12/2025 21:34

Eye-opening and repetitive. It's nice to come over here for a break!

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