To think the “self-made” narrative is a lie?

What does “talent” mean in a business context? Partly, IMO, it means courage, hard work, dedication, self belief, as well as curiosity, willingness to ask questions, plus persistence, persistence, persistence. Technical ability is often a really small component (in my experience). DH left school at 16, founded business that recently sold for £1bn (I might add, we haven’t been shareholders for some years!)

Oh do one will you…what a load of deterministic bollocks

I for one have embraced my own agency and won’t have my ‘madeness’ minimised.

I wouldn't go as far to say a myth, but certainly Very rare.
Be careful OP, I started a thread that was similar to yours a few weeks ago. A few nasty comments and accusations thrown my way

https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/am_i_being_unreasonable/5387599-in-thinking-that-progression-at-work-is-a-myth

ThreeWordUsername.

No previous posts. Yet again. It’s just another AI troll post folks.

Your user name reminds me of something @ChirpyOpalHelper .
Please do return!

Some people come from nothing and are self made on that sense. The majority have a safety net.

Thinking about this thread and David Beckham comes to mind.

I remember one of the Neville brothers saying to the papers that when they were all younger and starting out they'd all be out drinking and having fun but David would be home, practicing, kicking a ball.

Of course he didn't raise himself from childhood or not have coaching but there was something inside of him that made him persist, something that made him stand out from the crowd. With no connections, a working class background and teachers who asked him what he really wanted to do instead of being a footballer he had something in him that made him make it big.

I heard someone in radio 4 inteview in Trumps first term say Trump was self made man as was his son - they inherited wealth and privilege.

Yeah, it’s a bit suspicious when multiple generations of the same family are “self-made”.

I think the playing field can never really be level, can it? Some people are naturally more intelligent or good looking (which can be a social advantage) than others, regardless of their parents income. Or just the time at which you’re born; someone up thread has already mentioned the decline in social mobility. That’s not to say that there aren’t people who do very well in
life in spite of their circumstances.

For lots of people it is not a lie.

It's a myth in the sense that of course we're all interdependent and only the occasional hermit in the wilderness manages alone. It's also a myth in the literal sense that it's the hero of the capitalist, individualist narrative. And it's a myth (meaning a falsehood) when, as often happens, people use it to imply they had no help when in fact they had money, family support, networks, opportunities others might not have.

However, it's also NOT a myth in the cases of people who have genuinely come from disadvantaged backgrounds and managed to achieve their goals in life against the odds.

YABU.

The only two people I know that claim to be self made and who are now a multi millionaire and a billionaire started of in poverty. Genuine, real poverty, not relative poverty. They worked hard, were ruthless and probably had a little luck along the way as most of us do at some point. But any luck they had will have been related to what they were already doing and work that had already been put in. It didn’t come from nowhere.

Many people who are "self made" (or with inherited wealth Indeed) only get /stay wealthy due to the exploitation of others.

It's why I don't get people who think wealthy people are somehow ",better"

Not a myth, it probably gets overused and certainly some people who consider themselves self-made might be being a bit disingenuous, but there are certainly others who have pulled themselves up by the boot straps and done it all themselves.

The disingenuous types remind me of Douglas Renholm in The IT Crowd: "When I started Reynholm Industries, I had just two things in my possession: a dream and 6 million pounds. Today I have a business empire the like of which the world has never seen the like of which. I hope it doesn't sound arrogant when I say that I am the greatest man in the world!"

There are definitely some who do it - but you are right, more often than not people who claim to be self made had a leg up from somewhere. Most people I know who are successful in there 30s come from wealthy families and have most certainly had help starting up their businesses or progressing in their careers.

My dad is truly self-made.
Started as a child in an orphanage during WW2, fought to be allowed to go to university on a full bursary. Met my mum but her family were against their marriage so they eloped and moved to another country (so zero family support with childcare etc).
Started working for a company at the lowest level, gradually made his way up to a high executive position and had a very comfortable life from his 40s. His progression at work was 100% deserved, no political moves, he was really good at his job and received several awards from client companies (best supplier relationship, this type of things).

Someone close to me grew up in abject poverty, raised by violent, emotionally abusive, drug addict parents, and is now a millionaire. You could say he is "self-made" because it took a great deal of hard work, determination and resilience to succeed when the odds were well and truly stacked against him. But he always says that it was partly down to "luck" because meeting his wife made him want to make something of himself, and that if he hadn't met her he probably would have ended up going down a very different path like the rest of his family.

I know 2 multi millionaires. Both had poor backgrounds, left home early and neither went to uni. I have done well with zero help and no degree. Left home in my teens also.

Ha it was me who posted it (different username). I was just about to post it again!

Ooh, I can post this again! Hollie McNish poem which I saw on another thread here a while ago (thanks to whoever posted it, I can't remember) which I love.

Certainly some people get a lot more help than others, but nobody is 'self made'. Everyone has some level of support and education growing luck, and may spot a gap in the market that others have not spotted, and find success in it after working hard and planning carefully. But that only works in a particular context.

I knew a man who left school at 15 with no qualifications. He got a job in a back-street garage as a gofer. A few years later he was a windscreen fitter, and then started his own business with one employee. Twice he only just escaped bankruptcy. Twenty years after that it had become the biggest Windscreen replacement company in Europe. He was literally a self-made multi-millionaire, from nothing, But even he admitted that he was lucky to get into the right line of business at the perfect time. A few years earlier or later and it wouldn’t have happened.

Also - family member left school with few qualifications after spending several years at home ill

Well…the millionaire in my extended family worked on his now business in any spare time he could find from working long hours in a supermarket. And it’s the supermarket job that paid for his first equipment. Yes, stable family background, but all the business investment was his own, in an industry none of his family knew anything about.

We have only recently come to the end of the biggest transfer of wealth in history (baby boomers) - of course that has brought “self made”

there is no doubt that statistically your like outcomes and life earnings are better the more privilege you come from but that doesn’t mean there aren’t exceptions.

also where do you draw the line? Do you have to come from complete poverty to be self made? I have many friends who have small property portfolios now worth millions from taking risks I wouldn’t have taken in the early 2000s when money was easy to borrow and earn. They seem pretty self made to me? They have nice supportive families, but those families don’t provide cold hard cash (they didn’t need it- you could buy a house with no deposit back then!)