Husband has got extreme views

I find it interesting that a lot of people think religious beliefs are ok. I am not religious but have quite a few friends who are (Muslim and Christian) and I find their religious views mystifying. I also have a friend who is very much a believer in conspiracy theories similar to OP and honestly I don't see much difference. I am able to continue to be friends with them and in some areas we have deep connection.

I enjoy listening to Neil Degrasse Tyson (astrophysicist) who a little while back did a podcast on - are we living in a simulation - with Oxford theorist Nick Bostrom. I found it fascinating and intriguing and I think when I am bored listening to stuff like this excites me and I ponder the whole thing but ultimately I am unconvinced. The journey is a thrill though. I do think a lot of religion and conspiracy theories give people something to cling to cos they are unfulfilled.

I read somewhere once that some people thought the Bible was written by people who had been on a Magic Mushroom trip. Now that is a conspiracy theory I find interesting.

😂

We have a family member who is a conspiracist also, including some very right wing views about Muslims and Tommy Robinson being “misunderstood”.

The problem is twofold really. One, that these views are abhorrent to me (I can just about tolerate this by refusing to listen to her nonsense). Two, that she feels the need to preach at me and try and convince me I have it all wrong, that Muslims are inherently bad, vaccines are nefarious ways to control us, I’m blind to the evidence she shoves in my face, I am brainwashed by the media…..on and on she goes. It’s so sanctimonious and very unwelcome.

I know she’s trying to do me a kindness, as she wants me to awaken and see the light, but she doesn’t seem to understand that she is the brainwashed one. She has all these articles ready on her phone and spends all her free time researching these things so she can drown your arguments out with “evidence”. Of course I don’t have a plethora of counter evidence to hand so I end up being beaten into submission and saying ok fine, we will have to agree to disagree.

It’s the second part of the problem which is the issue. Less so the views, which are awful in themselves, more the need to convince everyone she meets. She manages to turn every conversation to this topic somehow. I’m done with it. I either ensure I’m out/busy when she visits or I do as the rest of the family do and just shut her down with a point blank refusal to talk about it. I don’t think I could be married to someone who held these views as I would have no respect for them. If they repeatedly tried to engage me/convert me that would certainly be the end.

Agree 100%.

There's a big difference between having political views at opposite ends of the spectrum and being radicalised by conspiracy theories. The difference is whether people have acquired these views by a rational process or not.

For example, a person could have right wing anti immigration views but be able to rationalise how the hold these views (abhorrent as they may be) without having to believe the weather is flat, or Covid was a hoax or that the Protocols of the Elders of Zion is a genuine thing.

Therein lies the difference, these unfortunate people, once they believe one conspiracy (Labour is deliberately importing illegals to replace the white population) it's almost as if they must believe all of them.

You just outed yourself as also a bit thick if you don't understand that it isn't logically possible to categorically state they are wrong about the existence of God (said as an atheist).

Agree.

When someone is basically so stupid then time with them is up.

Succinct, but true!

The issue here might be less about 'beliefs' but more about zealotry. No one wants to listen to someone bang on and on about the same (tedious), rigidly-held beliefs, nor be constantly patronised, nor be told on an ongoing basis that Mr 'Enlightened' is right about everything whilst they are wrong.

Upthread there are very reasonable posts about why someone would hold a religious belief. Those who quietly go about their practice and hold it as something intrinsic to them, not the subject of continual moral lectures, would be someone I could very easily live with. I fully respect the fact that since time immemorial humans have resisted the idea that we are nothing more than organic bodies - some need their spirituality in order to live, and this is perfectly undertstandable. But dinging in my ear on a daily basis the belief that I'm an evil, unrepentent sinner who is going to hell? No, thanks.

Likewise the batshit conspiracy theories (yes, they are). I'm talking here about 'the earth is flat, and if you believe otherwise then some tiny electronic flies have crawled into your earhole whilst your asleep and reprogrammed your brain). The cynic in me might well believe there's a set of less-than-orchestrated strategies to send people down these rabbit holes, so that when a 'real' (probably far less fantastical and more banal) one does happen - ie the received story of some tragic event not being the real truth of the situation. - it can be easily written off as just another bonkers conspiracy theory. (Cf. Jeffrey Epstein as opposed to Elvis, Jim Morrison, and Diana). I could much more easily accept that than the 'fact' that we're all living in a Matrix or that the earth is flat.

What you've described, OP, sounds like zealotry and possibly a symptom of a mental health crisis. It would be exhausting to live with this BS on a daily basis; I suspect I couldn't. Only you know if you can.

I was being hyperbolic— I’m sure there are core common conspiracies - most have a standard overlap. Flat earth, QAnon, Covid etc, the kids in a pizza shop in Washington being abused…..

If they were conspiracy theories so many people wouldn’t have become so aware of them…. Hundreds of thousands of people watch these videos and think they’re enlightened.

It’s like people hearing voices - mostly God, the Devil etc. They don’t hear voices from their kind aunt. There is a commonality to the mental ill health.

www.irishtimes.com/culture/six-common-conspiracy-theories-and-why-it-s-pointless-to-argue-with-them-1.4531139

That goes a lot further than sharing your views with your family. Not all gender critical people are joining baying mobs against trans people. Not all Christians are protesting outside abortion clinics. Many people with extreme views are just quietly getting on with a normal life.

@Yellowbirdcage

PP says Brexit and losing the Dublin Agreement means we can no longer return migrants. A fact check will tell you we rarely used it and took on more people from the EU than we ever returned under it.

Yes, but the problem wasn't with the EU and our membership, it was the failure of a succession of UK governments of both hues to exercise the powers that we had under EU legislation. Other EU members were exercising these powers successfully. Our governments didn't want to take the blame for difficult decisions that they made and so allowed the EU to carry the can. That dishonesty and lily-liveredness bit them (and us) in the bum later

Personally I couldn't live with someone who had fallen down the rabbit hole, primarily because the further down they go, the more they view everything through the lens of conspiracy and extremist views and they absolutely will not shut up about it.

It is often, but far from always, the uneducated and those unable to think critically who fall into this collective mental illness which is an big problem of the times we live in.

Only you can decide if you can go on living with this situation, I certainly couldn't, and of course you would not be unreasonable to leave him for it.

My own brother has lost his mind
down this rabbit hole. It started when he was young and saw some social media crap about 9/11 being an inside job and how 'the world's best engineers say that buildings don't collapse like that'. He went from there to telling me that the Holocaust never happened and it was 'only' a million Jews who were slaughtered. I didn't speak to him fir a long time after that. At the heart of all if this stuff lies vile anti-Semitism, even if this is not always apparent.

Barring some kind of Damascene conversion he will continue to get worse and more extreme.

I think it's interesting that he hides these views from the kids (for now). It would suggest to me that there is a part of him that knows they are ridiculous and embarrassing.

I can relate a little bit. DH and I used to be aligned on most things but over the past five years we have drifted apart politically. I have moved left of centre and he has moved right. He isn't some flag waving lunatic but less tolerant of anything he considers to be 'woke' and his heart seems to have hardened. It definitely started with Brexit. When they first announced the referendum, DH was debating how he felt - right at the start before it was so contentious. He was weighing up what it would mean for his small business, what he thought the impact might be on the economy and so on. Before he had made up his mind, the vitriol started about anyone voting leave being a racist and that really hit him hard. He was disgusted by the way it became acceptable to shame anyone who had a different view and how he didn't even feel he could debate with anyone about it whilst he made his mind up. He had to keep his considerations a secret because the 'thought police' would 'out' him. In the end, fwiw, we both voted Remain but the damage was done. He felt disconnected from society.

I find some of his views frustrating on the surface, but when I listen to him explaining himself - I can see how he has arrived there even if I don't often agree. I have struggled with our differences but luckily, he is still rationale and not full of hate or paranoia. He is still warm, kind and open minded enough to debate with me and listen to another view.

Social media is so fucking dangerous in situations like this. Your DH's algorithm will be insane by now. He is no doubt in an echo chamber of like-minded people feeding each other this bullshit. My best suggestion is that you ask him to balance his information sources, and try reading different news/social/commentary stories. A way to do this might be to offer to read something that has convinced him and in return, he reads something from you. You will at least see what he is reading so might be better positioned to challenge it, and he will be exposed to rationale thinking.

This

Their opinion is an opinion.

This man is talking about ‘marches’ which is behaviour that directly targets and intimidates human beings . (All the ‘marches’ I have heard of have been to gather around hotels, not to parliament..)

And if he joins a baying mob outside a migrant hostel?

It’s not just about being full or not though, for many people. It’s the huge and undeniable demographic changes all across the country, which people were never consulted about. Many people may delight in becoming a diverse country, but equally many do not, and their opinion is equally valid.

Hi, I’m a honours degree educated, believe in science and slightly left leaning person… who is still worried about illegal immigration.
To be educated, believe in science and left leaning does not make your viewpoints more morally superior to anyone else’s, I think as a society that is something we have forgotten.
I currently live somewhere where illegal immigration is not a prominent issue, however, I have no right to discredit those living in areas where it is, and are worried enough to make their voices of concern heard.
If your husband is still a good man, a law abiding citizen, doesn’t put you down for your obviously differing viewpoints, and can have peaceful discussions about topics… what’s the issue?

Going on a ‘march’ against migrants in hotels would do it for me. The demos outside the hotels.

That is not expressing a political opinion, it is designed to target and intimidate migrants. Couldn’t be in the same house as someone so vicious. Someone prepared to be in a crowd, some of whom, as we have seen, are prepared to set fire to buildings that have people inside.

I have a family member like that, probably easier to manage than a DH. I used to challenge his views and we would often have heated debates. I then just started ignoring him and quickly changing the subject as I realised we were never going to agree, he rarely mentions it now. If you want to make the relationship work, maybe come to an agreement that you won't talk about his conspiracy theories.

He's a woman...

Perhaps someone who believed the Bible would be slightly easier to tollerate depending on the level they were consumed by it.
It isn't im my opinion, just what they believe but how involved they become - hence the wanting to attend protests, it means the behaviour is escalating which is why it is concerning. The mirage of conspiracies can be very strong, especially if it catches people at a point where they might be struggling for various reasons. It provides a focus away feom their internal struggles, a justified cause to fight for. It is a dangerous past. I knew intelligent people who were deeply unhappy inside without acknowledging it, becoming entirely consumed by conspiracies, spending all their time searching for more info to support the theories they sign up to. It's a downward spiral that can escalate very quickly. I personally wouldn't be able to live with that. Especially with the big red flag, he is not open to discussion but believes that is THE way.
I am sorry you are in this situation, it must be very difficult. If he is not opening to seeing a therapist I think you need to take steps to protect yourself and your children.

I love that you think the left is intolerant, with the implications that the right is the natural home of open-mindedness and tolerance. There is someone selecting which facts to take into account according to whether they fit with an existing prejudice.

I've been in this position too and very sorry you're going through this. I respect the fact that he has a questioning mind and that we shouldn't all believe main stream media but it was his constant negativity and bringing conspiracies into every discussion. I couldn't stand it but felt his opinions alone wasn't a valid reason for divorce - I felt I was being too judgemental! It helped me to do lots of self reflection on who I was, what my own values were, what I wanted out of the marriage and out of life - and did those aline with his - they didn't and we divorced, but I still have divorce guilt everyday!
I actually found this thread from the other day really useful in backing up my decision to divorce

https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/relationships/5394823-what-things-are-truly-important-in-long-term-relationships-or-marriage

He is not stupid either. He has a science degree from a prestigious university and a decent career. His work banned him from mentioning any of his views there and he has respected that.

I would worry about the effects on your children in the long run. I have a lovely friend whose husband went like this in Covid and has just got more and more extreme over time. He now spends hours on the internet reading this crap and has started making his own ‘content’ and is obsessed with how many people read it. He sends me the links and I delete them instantly.

He refused for their DD to get routine vaccinations. Not just Covid or MMR but any vaccines at all. He is now refusing for them to wear bloody sunscreen even! He thinks skin cancer is a government conspiracy. As they are getting older the DC are aware of his bizarre views and rants and they won’t have friends over or even let him give them a lift in the car in case he starts it up in front of their friends. It is awful for the whole family. I wish she would leave him but she just keeps hoping he will go back to how he was (he never had any of these ideas pre Covid)