Where are the trans men?

Isn't it always the way with every aspect of life that when men are doing or wanting a thing, they make a lot more fuss about it and attract a lot more attention than when women do or want similar? Its entirely in keeping with the norms that TW are all over the place and TM are largely invisible, unless they can be made use of to facilitate TW.

They are women so naturally we hear from them less. They were socialised as girls and women (because they were/are) and as a group, never learned to make demands or advocate for themselves very well.

They also feel less comfortable making threats of physical violence and being violent. See also pissing all over the street in "protest".

I don't personally know any trans women but I do know a number of trans men or non binary persons that were assigned female at birth. There is an Emmerdale character that plays the part of a trans man that was assigned female at birth!

I guess men care less about who is in their "space" than women do so trans men are just going about their business,

Are they?

I’m sorry but even if there were small pockets of men pretending to be trans women, it doesn’t justify the way trans women get spoken about here or in the wider discussion, nor is it something I’m worried about going to the toilet. Trans women are less than 1% of the population, so any “men pretending to be trans women” is going to be even lower.

The reality is men don’t need to pretend to be trans women to attack us, they certainly aren’t going through HRT or public ridicule from bigots in order to do it. They’re just everyday men hiding in plane sight. You’re more likely to be attacked by a man in your own home than you are a trans women or “man pretending to be trans”

im sorry but women who spend their whole time spouting off about where trans women go to the toilet or seek help for domestic abuse themselves is so so wrong and gives men a free pass whilst we scapegoat yet another minority of people. It’s so so wrong.

I absolutely agree. There are some hideously sick trans women online, so GC people tar ALL trans women with the same brush - they’re all perverted rapists who are desperate to encroach on women’s toilets. When in actual fact most are too scared of GC women to ever dream of attempting to use a woman’s toilet.

And I know more trans men than I do trans women. But people tend not to become hysterical about them because they don’t mind sharing a toilet with them.

Im sorry to see you were assaulted and had no justice either. Disgusting.

I have had so many conversations on here about TW and I have to say always been spoken to respectfully. I do understand the frustration women feel and fear of sharing spaces with biological men. I get it, it’s quite new for many women and worse there are men who are predatory in nature and will take advantage. And Im often asked here how can women spot a fake TW, so predatory male dressed in women’s clothes and I don’t have an answer for that, unfortunately. But I do know that some of the most abusive men, some of the most prolific offenders are wearing disguises of being respected community members. They’re your fathers, husbands, brothers and sons. And you may never know or you may even be a victim to them yourself. The issue isn't TW for me, it’s a small minority of men who will use trans as a weapon to abuse. And what these men are doing is allowing women to tear each other to shreds, not even TW, cis/natural/women women on the others views and creating this massive divide. When women should unify and agree we don’t care if we’re raped by a man wearing a dress, a man wearing a suit, we simply don’t want to be raped. If we could fight for our rights with as much passion to simply not be raped in toilets by anyone, that would be terrific.

Once again, Im sorry to hear of your experience. I was also raped by a man and whilst I agree there will be predators who will abuse women’s spaces to rape us, I ultimately was going to be raped by that man, regardless of what he was wearing and had he have worn lipstick and heels, I’d have (personally, not speaking for anyone but me here) not felt any more violated than I was by him wearing a tracksuit.

I wish you the best on your journey of recovering from your attack.

It is weird, because if you wanted to completely change the hormonal profile of your body, menopause would seem the ideal time.

There are roughly the same number of both in the UK but less of a moral panic about trans men. see www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/culturalidentity/genderidentity/articles/genderidentityageandsexenglandandwalescensus2021/2023-01-25

There are loads of them but they are a completely different cohort from the majority of men who transition.

They are overwhelmingly very young and tend to be same sex attracted and/or autistic and/or have been abused. This is the other terrible effect on women's rights from gender identity ideology - what it is doing to girls and young women, especially lesbians.

I also know one personally.

I think it’s more subtle than that. There are plenty of trans identifying young women. And were told the explosion in their numbers simply represents more awareness and acceptance and is definitely not social contagion/self harm/internalised homophobia/ a manifestation of their autism.

which begs the question, where are all the late transitioning women? We hear about plenty of middle aged men who realise their authentic self is a woman, but almost zero middle aged women do the same. If the youth figures are the true proportion of trans men, then where are all the middle aged TIFs?

weird, huh?

If you are a woman and have short hair, are not interested in flowers or don't apply make up then you are a trans man. As evidenced by the transing of anyone from history who had short hair or tried to do some science.

Exactly the majority of trans people I know lead very normal lives, and generally keep to themselves in day to day life. I don’t blame them for showing out protest either with how backwards this country has gone and i have joined the recent protests in Manchester to support them 👏

sick of hearing from other women how I should be scared of trans women in xyz scenario. im not. I was assaulted by men who clearly still identified as men, and my case was thrown out because of “lack of evidence”. I’m scared of MEN not trans people, and I’m scared of the judicial system that lets men get away with all sorts while telling me I should be scared of trans women instead

They're right there. You may have misread them as butch lesbians, or just not realised because of the effect of testosterone.

They are sadly making demands of gay men - see 'boxer ceiling.'

Difference between them and transwomen is they are less likely to pose a danger to the opposite sex.

And less likely to bulldoze them in sports.

No, it is because you live in the mumsnet echo chamber, so that is all you hear about.

There are loads of trans men. Natural men dont care.

I know plenty of trans men

and women

can’t say I’ve ever felt threatened by either. I think it’s disgusting how people are speaking about them personally

I know two.
There was a thread about one fairly recently here www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5281525-transman-tries-to-join-female-and-non-binary-space?page=6

they're around, mostly minding their own business. i know several, two are good/close friends, and socially i know maybe 5-10 more, i know some who you wouldn't know were bio female unless they told you, they look, and sound, completely male.. muscles, beards, the lot.. and some that in transition look more like teen boys even though they're in their 20s.

On a whole, despite transitioning, they still blend better into femme heavy social situations, and those you KNOW are transmen aren't seen as threatening or a nuisance.

I know an equal number of transwomen, and while the majority just want to get on with it.. they're largely people that have to announce they're trans and they're noisier about making sure people know, and get more vocally upset when they're misgendered.

I know of one who actually passes quite well if you didn't know. Balding with some facial hair.
They are quite and just get on with life. women don't notice because they are not threatened, they are not looking closely at the fairly short male in day to day life, who is certainly not doing anything to draw attention.
Men are quite unobservant and also don't notice. My husband is oblivious that the short father at pick up was actually a female.
I think with trans women they often go in pushing for what they want displaying male arrogance . Women who present as men still have many female personality traits that allow them to just quietly get on with it without pushing or yelling about it?
Maybe someone can contradict me on this? But I don't get the feeling trans men are actually a threat to anyone or trying to force themselves on others in quite the same way as transwomen.
Transwomen do in fact pose a massive risk to biological women and also very rarely pass. Women also look a bit closer at other females.

It’s still NAMALT! Just in a different outfit.

There are at least 3 transmen where I work. They've all transitioned while working for the organisation and announced it, so there could well be more who joined post-transition and ID'd male from the start of their employment.

There are two people I sometimes see at head office that I really couldn't say whether they ID as male or female, but I can't say it bothers me. They have gender neutral names and should I ever need to refer to them in the 3rd person, I'd opt for the neutral they/them.

but why aren't women rushing to do the same thing in reverse?

They are 🤷‍♀️

Is this the trans debate equivalent of NAMALT?