9 yr old told off for calling non-binary teacher Sir

I've gone down this road before but here we are again ...

I want to be addressed as her excellency high emperess of the universe then I should expect my wishes to be respected, should I?

She most definitely did not 'nail it'

She said that people should call her whatever she wants.

Why should I? Courtesy?

Anyway - she's an adult and is presumably talking about friends, colleagues and family who she has a reciprocal relationship with.

This is a child whose teacher is forcing them to comply with their belief system, indulging themselves in using the power they have over that child in their employed role to get what they want.

That is not okay. The child's needs are more important than the adult's validation.

If you think your belief system is more important than the children you are paid to educate, you should not be teaching.

@MrsEverest nailed it really.

Some interesting logic around these discussions.

This man should keep his identify out of the classroom......but perfectly fine for teachers to ask their class to address them by a title signifying their identity as a married woman.

There's no such thing as 'presenting' as a woman, and threads like this often ask 'but what do you mean' when someone is described in that way......but someone is 'clearly' a man, based on appearance.

I shouldn't have to enter into their fiction.......but if I were to meet a member of the royal family I'd be expected to enter into their fiction about their superiority to me and address them as 'highness' or 'ma'am', or address religious leaders by their titles whether I find the premise on which they're based imaginary or not.

I suppose people are well aware, using the evidence of their senses, that I'm a married woman. I still do not wish to be called Mrs HusbandName. I would correct anyone following the evidence of their senses who called me that, and I would expect that correction to be respected, whether the other person accepted women using titles that don't indicate marital status or not (many people do not find this acceptable). I've told you what I want to be called and I expect my wishes to be respected.

This is not the case. See Taylor v Jaguar Land Rover Ltd [2020] which established non-binary and gender fluid identities are protected under the Gender Reassignment characteristic. And no, the SC judgment has not affected that.

What happens if a white man identifies as a black woman? Is that ok?

There are an awful lot of very mentally unwell people in the world we live in today and it’s getting worse by the day, I’m sure most employers will see the increase in the use of AI as a blessed relief so the won’t have to put up with all this nonsense from humans,

Non binary is not a protected characteristic; and adults who work with children or vulnerable people should not use them for validation.

The man is paid to teach - keep your identity out of the classroom.

I don't wish to teacher bash. They do a challenging and often thankless task. I would be supportive of a teacher pulling up my child on poor behaviour or rudeness, but I really would not be happy about my 9 year old child being told off for having a genuine slip up in the way they addressed a non-binary teacher. It's not something I feel the teacher should have pulled the child up on or made them feel bad about.

It has nothing to do with poor-regulation skills. It's to do with having my child's back when there's cause to do so.

It is

This gender bollocks is doing my head in.

There’s a girl in my son’s class (currently in Y3) who ‘identifies’ as a boy and has been referred to as one by her family and staff at school since Reception. Beyond confusing for the other children. She lines up with the boys and adults play along. But she uses the girls toilets. One of the boys in their class tried to use the girls toilets this year and was told off and he said ‘but uses them and she’s a boy’. I’m all for be who you want to be, live and let live, etc. but it is beyond confusing for primary aged children and my son cannot get his head around the fact that she’s a girl but she’s also a boy. I have tried to have a gentle discussion around it but I refuse to tell him that you can identify as whatever you want to be and everyone else has to play along. He’ll be trying to identify as a Minecraft character or something and start mining the playground.

I despair at the world.

I don’t think kids understand the concept of non binary. I’m late 20’s and even I can’t comprehend how someone doesn’t feel either gender- so trying to explain to kids, they’re not going to understand or know how to address them correctly. Transgender is a different matter, if they are male to female for example and they present female (as in dress feminine, don’t have facial hair etc) then it’s simpler to explain to children that some people don’t feel like they was born in the correct body.

I think kids should be kids, putting these pronouns and confusing children with adult topics are ruining their childhoods. It should be simple, they shouldn’t have the complexities of adult issues forced upon them.

We should not be forcing our kids' to 'believe this nonsense. Teaching is about imparting knowledge and the skills to get along in the world, not cow tow to narcissistic neediness.

We should not be forcing this nonsense into our kids' heads. Teaching is about imparting knowledge and helping children find their way in the world not to cow tow to narcissistic neediness.

That was a first tier tribunal and sets no legal precedent. Afaik the ‘win’ was because the employer didn’t mount a defence. Things have changed significantly since then.

People can adopt whatever title they like, no one has the right to bully schoolchildren demand that everyone uses that title.

Sickening, isn't it?

To think that once upon a time, I thought he was quite cool 🤦‍♀️

Thank you. Yikes to the juxtaposition of his dildo with the picture of the child’s face. I doubt that was an accident.

Yes, that’s quite common knowledge.

Just like it’s common knowledge that teenage girls don’t do that. And women don’t wear skirts for purposes of their own sexual gratification. Some men do though.

Oh I'm sure I can. The question is whether I can compel a nine year old I'm teaching to use it.

Ok, so the article you linked argued that ...

Gender is a social construct, not an essential characteristic. So can be legitimately 'identified out of'.

It also said that race is an essential characteristic so can not be 'identified out of.'

So I put to you (and the author of the article), what about sex? It is clearly an essential characteristic to my mind - So presumably cannot be 'identified out of'.

The author of that article simply sidesteps that question, which to my mind negates her argument. But what do you think?

You cited that article as supporting your position that identifying as a race you are not is not legitimate, while identifying as a sex you are is.

But there's a major flaw there in that the article doesnt engage with sex -but gender.

So I agree I'm being persistent, but if you're going to cite the article as support for your position, then addressing this major oversight is important.

https://www.ukdeedpolloffice.org/what-is-the-mx-title/

Anyone can use the Mx title. Even you.

Grayson Perry has openly said that this is the case for him. I do not think we can know whether that might apply to others.

No one would be telling my child off for calling a male sir, if they don't want to be misgendered then don't work with children when that will likely happen a lot, especially young children who just say it how they see it

What extensive research have you done to justify this comment?
I have existed in this planet for 50 odd years and used my powers of observation.

Women sometimes wear skirts and heels for sexual purposes. Should we ban skirts and heels for everyone?

In my 50 odd years I have never heard of any woman wearing a skirt in public in order to get themselves off sexually. I have however, heard of many men who do so and seen the incompatibility of an erection and a skirt. Especially when children are present (more about that later)

Same applies to women. Just because a man wears a skirt doesn’t make him a paedophile, predator or deviant. Some men just want to wear a skirt and heels. What about a skirt without heels or vice versa, is that acceptable?

I didn’t say all men are but SOME men are predators and deviants. Statistically FAR more likely to be than women. We have no way of telling which man is going to be a predator hence we utilise safeguarding principles.

Its a skirt and heels, not chaps and crotchless panties with thigh high boots.

There is extensive evidence that a simple dress or skirt combined with the thrill of being in public is all it takes for some men.

God help you if you bump into Grayson Perry.

Yes, God help me. An ‘interesting’ man who thought it appropriate to turn up to a children’s charity event wearing a large black dildo.

You minimise and hand wave and justify predatory behaviour. In this day and age when rape and child sexual abuse is endemic we need to reduce opportunities, not increase them.

@TheKeatingFive - no I don’t know that you aren’t mocking me. Because I already told you where I stand on both sex, gender and race. If you look through you can find the answer that I have provided.

not once I have said that sex is a social construct. The social construct vs biological essence as you put it. I have not refused to engage with the sex part of this argument I answered all of your prompts - again look for what I have said in my replies. You might not like the answers I give or disagree and again that is your right but I am entitled to my opinion. the interesting thing is why do you you keep asking me all these questions- and I’m really thinking to myself whats your point? What is your argument?
I hope you have a lovely life - I don’t wish any ill to you but I have answered enough of your questions and won’t be answering any more. I am comfortable with my views - I’m happy with where I stand. You won’t change my mind just as I’m sure I won’t change yours.